CitationAir

[fischman]

I guess your right, maybe you haven't called me any names. However, I've called you a union monger many times, and that really isn't a name, it's more of a description.

You've always been blind about those that have lost their careers and/or livelihoods because of unions, but that's OK, I wouldn't expect anything any different out of you.

BTW, when we meet you can say you've met a "union monger" who stands up to his union leadership when he sees them out of line too. Don't believe me? Ask the current NJASAP president. I haven't been shy about sharing my opinion.

To say I'm blind about those who have lost their careers due to unions is funny. Unions don't fire employees. Management does. But that's OK. I wouldn't expect anything different out of you.

 

[Praetorian]

There is no "ranking", there are those that get it done and those that don't. How do you think all those rank and file workers get laid off when the union plays their ugly game before the union coughs anybody up to save money?

Do you think that they do it by seniority?

Hell no...

They keep those that produce the best quality product and are willing to make the company strong, because only the strong survive.

That can't be quantified by how long somebody has been in the job, but there are those that fit the job better than others.

Pilots have lots of personalities and not all are cut out to be frac pilots.

When the time comes to figure out furloughs, the same thinking should apply to the pilots as to the rank and file workers that have already taken the cut. The strong survive and the weak get culled.

Seniority should be meaningless.

But you still haven’t answered the original question. How would you quantify a pilot’s value and what criterion would you use to identify their merit?

Pilot x reportedly makes good landings so we keep him? How is this quantifiable since there are only two grades recorded on the 8710 “S” or “U”.

Oh, but pilot x called in sick three times last year so he’s out?

Pilot y will do anything to get the job done so we keep him? Is that what you’re advocating? Sounds like a recipe for smoking holes.

Pilot merit is impossible to quantify and this is why even non-union companies ultimately end up with a seniority based system. We don’t make the schedule and we are required to ground airplanes when they are broken and call in sick when ill, so at the end of the day that leaves only subjective criteria, like who kisses the most a$$. I’ve noticed over the years that the “A-Teamers” often end up getting fired by guys like you because they take it a little too far.

Hey BTW, you do have a seniority list at Avantair right?

 

[CA1900]

B19 would reward the pilots who "get the job done" by not inconveniencing the passengers with things like writing up broken airplanes. Anyone who downs an airplane just because it's broken clearly isn't a team player and should be compensated accordingly.

 

[imacdog]

Also don't forget that in the word of 19, pilots aren't capable of determining whether a plane is broken or not.

 

[fischman]

He won't remember that one.

I can't wait for the spin...

Ridiculous comeback post in 5...4...3...2...1...

 

[Praetorian]

He won't remember that one.

I can't wait for the spin...

Ridiculous comeback post in 5...4...3...2...1...

I referenced his employer so he can't respond. Just put "Avantair" at the bottom of any post and he will not answer. It's like garlic or holy water to vampires. Try it. It works.

Avantair. Avantair. :beer:

 

[fischman]

Avantair? Is that like a fast food joint or something? :nuts:




JUST KIDDING AVANTAIR GUYS!!!

 

[B19 Flyer]

Also don't forget that in the word of 19, pilots aren't capable of determining whether a plane is broken or not.

Pilots are NOT qualifed to detirmine if an airplane is broken or not.

If a pilot writes up an item and the mechanic signs it off as airworthy, it's not broken no matter how much the pilot wants to slow the operation down.

Pilots are also not qualified to diagnose the problem or fix the problem.

 

[imacdog]

That's awesome, I didn't even have to go find your post! Thanks for helping me prove my point, B.

 

[B19 Flyer]

B19 would reward the pilots who "get the job done" by not inconveniencing the passengers with things like writing up broken airplanes. Anyone who downs an airplane just because it's broken clearly isn't a team player and should be compensated accordingly.

There are good pilots and bad pilots. It's all about integrity.

There are pilots that just get it done the right way. They don't play games with the system, they show up on time, they preflight and post flight an airplane properly. Most of the time, you don't even know they are there, they are under the radar. They turn in paperwork on time and keep the logbook up to date. You can actually read the handwriting.

They make sure the cabin of the airplane is clean, they are proactive in flight planning and you don't have to hold their hand on every little issue that pops up. It's about understanding what the entire job is and doing it to the best of their ability.

Integrity isn't built on seniority, it's built by character. It has nothing to do with stick and rudder, anybody can learn to fly an airplane.
It has nothing to do with flying broken airplanes, or doing things that aren't legal. It's not about pushing the envelope about anything in the airplane.

Those are the pilots that you want around, those that you have confidence in that will write up an airplane and you know it's a valid problem simply by the integrity of the individual.

It's those that dot the "I"s and cross the "T"s and get it done the right way that deserve to be compensated accordingly.

There isn't a seniority number in the world that will stand up to the list of integrity.