CitationAir

[B19 Flyer]

FAR 91.3 (a) The pilot in command of an aircraft is directly responsible for, and is the final authority as to, the operation of that aircraft.


FAR 91.7 (b) The pilot in command of a civil aircraft is responsible for determining whether that aircraft is in condition for safe flight. The pilot in command shall discontinue the flight when unairworthy mechanical, electrical, or structural conditions occur.

Well, that was easy to look up. I know which one prints my license.

Can you go without that mechanics sign off in the logbook?

Simple question.

 

[B19 Flyer]

yeah, i always pick on the people i know are right too. You're obviously "forgetting" all the important stuff, maybe you shouldnt post anymore, it just makes you look ignorant.

Pick all you want though, i've worn down managers a lot smarter than you think you are, when you were still in grade school kid. Im retired now and I earned the right.

My first type rating was in a DC6, any questions kid?


Your apology is accepted though.

No apology. We both know that your highly unionized former employer no longer exists and was absorbed by a much smarter non unionized work force. Your way of doing business is over, you're lucky they stepped in so you have a pension. Just because you've been around a few years longer doesn't mean you have a better understanding of how things are done today. The last 5 years have produced more change than the last 20, all of it for the better, albiet not as much fun.

 

[B19 Flyer]

You guys may as well talk to a wall - he's a lost cause. Just be thankful he's not in an airplane where he could hurt someone.

Yes, be thankful I'm not. If I was, then I and others in simular positions wouldn't have been able to have helped as many pilots as we have over the years. It's the pilot mentality of not understanding the big picture, as is in this conversation now, that is the curse of why things sometimes happen the way they do. If not for those like me, change wouldn't happen in the industry to make things safer for you and the traveling public. You watch things one flight at a time. The only things that affect you are what happens moment by moment. You have no understanding on who sets up the system that allows you to feel confident that you have an airworthy airplane underneath your butt. That's OK, it's my understanding of that holier than thou attitude of a pilot that allows people like me to see ahead and help to save you from yourself.

No need to say thank you, those that care like I do will continue to make sure that you're safe even though you folks don't appreciate it.

 

[wacoflyr]

Hows the union drive going right down from your office in Clearwater?

I get assigned an office every other week, and I ride it all over North America. It seldom gets to Clearwater. I don't know how the union drive is going.

 

[XTW]

Yes, be thankful I'm not. If I was, then I and others in simular positions wouldn't have been able to have helped as many pilots as we have over the years. It's the pilot mentality of not understanding the big picture, as is in this conversation now, that is the curse of why things sometimes happen the way they do. If not for those like me, change wouldn't happen in the industry to make things safer for you and the traveling public. You watch things one flight at a time. The only things that affect you are what happens moment by moment. You have no understanding on who sets up the system that allows you to feel confident that you have an airworthy airplane underneath your butt. That's OK, it's my understanding of that holier than thou attitude of a pilot that allows people like me to see ahead and help to save you from yourself.

No need to say thank you, those that care like I do will continue to make sure that you're safe even though you folks don't appreciate it.

Excuse me while I genuflect.uke:


X

 

[wacoflyr]

Can you go without that mechanics sign off in the logbook?

Simple question.

Look B19, we all see the point that you are trying to make. Yes, mechanics are important. No one here believes otherwise. No, we can't launch without the mechanics signature. Simple answer. But the correct answer which you argued against, is that the pilot in command is the final authority for the flight, and is responsible for the airworthiness of the aircraft. The FAR's state this, the point is irrefutable, and when you argue against this your other points, which are sometimes accurate, get lost in the glare of your mistake.

But you refuse to see this, because you seem to be blinded by what looks like anger toward all of us pilots. Who are you to accuse us of a "holier than thou" attitude? I mean, come on. I, for one, don't appreciate your condescending attitude toward us. This sort of problem is what drives a wedge between management and pilots.

You say we don't have the big picture? That's probably true. But we are where the rubber meets the road. We go face to face with the owners who pay your salary. And you don't have a clue how pilots sometimes save the company big headaches by smoothing waters that others have made rough. Yup, sometimes we fix mistakes made by management. We calm anger caused by what are sometimes completely preventable mistakes. We find economies in fuel pricing, hotel reservation, and occasionally even scheduling that save our companies big, big bucks. Money that management left on the table. We see plenty of other waste that we can't save, that we can only shake our heads at. And then we navigate an ever more complicated airspace through nearly all weather to deliver very precious families to fun airports like Eagle, Ocean Reef, and Monteray.

But we are capable of much more. You would be surprised by what you find in the cockpits these days. There are some tools, but most pilots I talk to have extensive experience outside of aviation, doing amazing things. It is a waste to underestimate people.

If you really work for a company that employs pilots, you would be doing yourself a favor to see them as a far greater resource than just performing the very complicated job that they already do. Instead of relegating pilots as functionaries to be backed into a corner with GOM's and FAR's, you should enable them to find solutions for some of the bigger problems that you face. They would surprise you. Your company would benefit, and you could stop preaching to us here, and we could all move along, exchanging useful info like adults.


Wacoflyr

 

[rigger]

What happened to the "new" and nice B19? That did not last long....

 

[gunfyter]

Can you go without that mechanics sign off in the logbook?

Simple question.

How about that M. E. L. ? with maintenance action approved to be performed by a flight crew....

 

[wacoflyr]

How about that M. E. L. ? with maintenance action approved to be performed by a flight crew....

That's right. I forgot about that. Hey B19? This is one way to admit that one has made a mistake. It is necessary for a flight crew member to have this capacity, so that he or she can learn. If we don't learn from mistakes, we could face disaster on a very human scale. But to learn from a mistake, one must first admit that one has made a mistake.

 

[Pervis]

Don't waste your time. Didn't you know that if B19 were around long ago, he would have saved Icarus from his fate?

 

[imacdog]

What happened to the "new" and nice B19? That did not last long....

It's hard to pretend to be nice when one is actually a very angry little man who gets called on his BS.

 

[UAL-GSO]

Yes, be thankful I'm not. If I was, then I and others in simular positions wouldn't have been able to have helped as many pilots as we have over the years. It's the pilot mentality of not understanding the big picture, as is in this conversation now, that is the curse of why things sometimes happen the way they do. If not for those like me, change wouldn't happen in the industry to make things safer for you and the traveling public.You watch things one flight at a time. The only things that affect you are what happens moment by moment. You have no understanding on who sets up the system that allows you to feel confident that you have an airworthy airplane underneath your butt. That's OK, it's my understanding of that holier than thou attitude of a pilot that allows people like me to see ahead and help to save you from yourself.

No need to say thank you, those that care like I do will continue to make sure that you're safe even though you folks don't appreciate it.

Wow - talk about a holier than thou attitude... You're leading the charge to make the industry safer and you don't even know what "could not duplicate" means?

Interesting line you wrote up there. You want to take credit for changing the industry. Change often happens in this industry after people die. People die because complacency sets in and priorities shift away from safety. Thank god for every desk jockey like you who is willing to order a short cut to "help" the operation, there is a pilot who is willing to stand their ground and keep that airplane where it belongs as long as it takes to make it safe.

I been in this game for a few years myself. Managers come and go - always have, always will. The safety of the system lies in the knowledge and skill of the flight crew, dispatchers, mechanics etc... and there ability to work together. Hate to break it to you, but you aren't really saving anyone from themselves

Who do work for, anyway?

 

[fischman]

Avantair

 

[The Dude Abides]

Yes, be thankful I'm not. If I was, then I and others in simular positions wouldn't have been able to have helped as many pilots as we have over the years. It's the pilot mentality of not understanding the big picture, as is in this conversation now, that is the curse of why things sometimes happen the way they do. If not for those like me, change wouldn't happen in the industry to make things safer for you and the traveling public. You watch things one flight at a time. The only things that affect you are what happens moment by moment. You have no understanding on who sets up the system that allows you to feel confident that you have an airworthy airplane underneath your butt. That's OK, it's my understanding of that holier than thou attitude of a pilot that allows people like me to see ahead and help to save you from yourself.

No need to say thank you, those that care like I do will continue to make sure that you're safe even though you folks don't appreciate it.

WOW . . . Anyone know what the top of the narcissism scale is? Please print this out and hand it to the PIC the next time you fly on one of your company's aircraft.

 

[sshrae]

Avantair

If that's the case, they definitely need a union. 8 and 6 is the least of their problems.