CitationAir Terminates Pilots on Disability

[G4dude]

BINGO!!!

If a company will only pay you for, say, two months while you're out on disability, then so be it. But FIRING someone because they had an unplanned medical issue?! And ESPECIALLY if it's a medical problem, even if the company isn't paying your salary anymore, they are probably still providing health insurance. But if you're fired, you have no job to come back to, and no medical insurance.

I suppose it's the right of any company to engage in this behaviour (unless restricted in a contract), but they should quit acting surprised when the employees aren't terribly interested in going the extra mile for the company. Everything is a two-way street. Show the employees no loyalty, then don't expect any back from the employees. Conversely, show the employees a little love (such as not firing someone while on disabiliy even though it may cost a little bit in health premiums) and the employees will be more willing to do things, such as work that extra day when asked, even though it means it costs the employee a little more time away from his/her family. (and the company can always make the money back, whereas the employee will NEVER get those specific missed moments with the family back)

Why is it that companies feel the need to go down this path? Treat your employees well, and they would NEVER have to worry about a union on property. Seems the new business norm is strictly about the bean counters. The human element is gone. Very sad. Especially considering how a good human element (Southwest Airlines) can lead to incredible success. Two sides working together will ALWAYS produce better results than butting heads all the time. But, company culture comes from the top, not from the employees. It's really up to management to lead the way.

This response is what I was looking for. Thanks. Interesting thoughts.

 

[The Dude Abides]

I was just asking a question: how long should a company pay someone who does not produce? I didn't say I wanted the company to throw him on the streets, or for him to die of the Plague, or anything like that. I just asked a question.

You didn't just ask a question. You clearly insinuated something else when you wrote this . . .

How easy it is, it seems to me, to be compassionate with other people's money.

These GD guys who have a medical condition and are waiting for the feds are the problem? Is that what you're saying? Here's hoping it won't/hasn't happen(ed) to you!

Please allow me to quote back to you one of your more brilliant quotes.

You really need to stop embarrassing yourself.

 

[G4dude]

You didn't just ask a question. You clearly insinuated something else when you wrote this . . .These GD guys who have a medical condition and are waiting for the feds are the problem? Is that what you're saying? Here's hoping it won't/hasn't happen(ed) to you!

Please allow me to quote back to you one of your more brilliant quotes.

I was just asking the question, seeking answers. However, I was and still am curious. How long should a company keep paying somebody who does not produce? And don't most people carry disability insurance? And have savings for a rainy day? And have family to help? And have the ability, in many cases, to do other things for income while recovering from many ailments? Are we to be adopted by our employer? How about individual responsibility?

 

[G4dude]

It's not an issue of pay while not producing. It's an issue of still having a job when you get better! Do you really think it's reasonable to lose everything and have to start all over somewhere else if you get sick and can't work for six months?

Here is another question. If I am out of work for a period of time, someone else is hired to replace me. How long should the company let this other guy fly in my place, then fire him when I am well again?

 

[rajflyboy]

This is a tough situation for this pilot, but I have a question. How long should a company pay someone who no longer produces for the company? How easy it is, it seems to me, to be compassionate with other people's money.

What if Pilot was injured at work and because of work (while he was trying to make x company money) ??

Does you comprehende this?

 

[rajflyboy]

Here is another question. If I am out of work for a period of time, someone else is hired to replace me. How long should the company let this other guy fly in my place, then fire him when I am well again?

There are laws against this

 

[rajflyboy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6yO8eS-w0k

G4

I found this video just for you on youtube. Enjoy.

 

[CA1900]

Here is another question. If I am out of work for a period of time, someone else is hired to replace me. How long should the company let this other guy fly in my place, then fire him when I am well again?

Three years seems reasonable to me. Perhaps shorter for smaller companies, and longer for larger ones. At Netjets, an extra pilot adds 0.04% to the payroll, meaning the costs of keeping his job open until the next hiring wave is negligible.

FMLA only requires 12 weeks. Better than the 0 weeks it replaced, but still inadequate in my opinion.

Employees make an investment to join a company, too, often leaving a good job to do so. They should not bear all the risk for that.

 

[fischman]

This is a tough situation for this pilot, but I have a question. How long should a company pay someone who no longer produces for the company? How easy it is, it seems to me, to be compassionate with other people's money.

What if the employee in question wasn't injured, and held the title of CEO?

 

[G4dude]

Three years seems reasonable to me. Perhaps shorter for smaller companies, and longer for larger ones. At Netjets, an extra pilot adds 0.04% to the payroll, meaning the costs of keeping his job open until the next hiring wave is negligible.

FMLA only requires 12 weeks. Better than the 0 weeks it replaced, but still inadequate in my opinion.

Employees make an investment to join a company, too, often leaving a good job to do so. They should not bear all the risk for that.

Hmmm. Thanks! Interesting, especially the part about holding the replacement pilot. Question: why should the employee not bear the risk? What "investment" does the employee make? He/she is paid for the work done, it seems to me, so what investment?

 

[G4dude]

What if the employee in question wasn't injured, and held the title of CEO?

He made enough to not require any additional money from the company, of course! I knew you would like that answer!

 

[Lord Wakefield]

this is what he'd say
http://video.despair.com/drkersten/a-thought-about-unions/

 

[CA1900]

Question: why should the employee not bear the risk?

I didn't say he shouldn't bear any risk -- I said he shouldn't bear all of it. I say that because I'm not a contract pilot. I've fully committed to spending my career here, and for the company to just throw me away because I get sick for six months is unconscionable to me. If you believe a company should be able to whatever it wants to maximize profits at our expense, you're certainly entitled to that opinion. I just don't share it.

What "investment" does the employee make? He/she is paid for the work done, it seems to me, so what investment?

I'll use myself as an example. Aside from quitting a previous job, as I said, I moved near one of the 5 crew bases available to me at the time I was hired. That was no small expense, nor was my wife quitting her job for the move.

 

[fischman]

He made enough to not require any additional money from the company, of course! I knew you would like that answer!

That was funny.

 

[G4dude]

this is what he'd say
http://video.despair.com/drkersten/a-thought-about-unions/

Pretty funny video!

 

[rigger]

It's pretty simple stuff. You run out of LTD at some pointso you aren't being paid, OK buT you are still sick or injured ifyou are terminated and were a capt should you be forced to re apply as an f/o do you keep your seniority in the company? What about the pria form employee was terminated that will look great to another employer. How about this industry I am fired cause I fell off a bus saving a little old lady from a certain death, I have been atthiscompany for 20 years now I have to start at a regional as an FO for 20k a year.....this policy does not work in the airplane flying world......it costs nothing to keep the spot for x amount of years...... What about if I get checked outand returned to work from the doctor it the FAA takes 7 months to approve my medical, I should still be terminated???

Bad ju ju atCA now folks!

 

[Sparse]

This is a tough situation for this pilot, but I have a question. How long should a company pay someone who no longer produces for the company? How easy it is, it seems to me, to be compassionate with other people's money.

Recently we had several pilots return for extended disability. One pilot had an inner ear infection that caused vertigo. He was fine within a month but it took a year for the FAA to issue his medical. Under this new policy he woud have been terminated. Another pilot returned after four years with a back issue. He tried several times to return but the company doctor would not approve it. He also would have been terminated. I know there are a few who abuse the program but most pilots want to get their medical back. Punishing the many for the actions of a few is wrong.

 

[Sparse]

What if the employee in question wasn't injured, and held the title of CEO?

CEOs usually have contracts that cover things like this.

 

[G4dude]

CEOs usually have contracts that cover things like this.

I like your avatar, Sparse.

 

[imacdog]

I didn't say he shouldn't bear any risk -- I said he shouldn't bear all of it. I say that because I'm not a contract pilot. I've fully committed to spending my career here, and for the company to just throw me away because I get sick for six months is unconscionable to me. If you believe a company should be able to whatever it wants to maximize profits at our expense, you're certainly entitled to that opinion. I just don't share it.

Are you kidding, of course he does. He's stated that he'd rather see the company fire him and replace him with someone working for 40K less because it would make the company more competitive. This statement is too stupid to come from a pilot and points to him being a management stooge.