CitationAir How Much Longer

[CE750Driver]

But it can apply to companies who are presented with the spectre of a new union to worry about. I think that was the tipping point. Could be wrong, but that seems to be the most likely explanation for the abrupt change of direction.

Yes, dont worry, it was the spectre of your attitude, that made your wife bang your neighbor. Not your schlong size that was the tipping point. That is the most likely explanation for that abrupt change of direction.

 

[7777]

Yeah, I think the union busted the company, not the other way around. The threat of having to deal with a union caused Cessna to say bye bye.

I agree. It is too coincidental to not be the case. I am certain the pro union crowd here will never admit it.....but, some folks just need to be kicked in the balls to convince them it is going to hurt.

CA was a great company. Now my friends there will be looking for another job.

 

[G4dude]

I agree. It is too coincidental to not be the case. I am certain the pro union crowd here will never admit it.....but, some folks just need to be kicked in the balls to convince them it is going to hurt.

CA was a great company. Now my friends there will be looking for another job.

Thank you. Now, you get to be blocked by the Crazies too! What a shame about a very nice company, which Cessna was planning to hang in there with until the union came along and tipped the balance. It is so obvious to me too.

 

[G4dude]

Yes, dont worry, it was the spectre of your attitude, that made your wife bang your neighbor. Not your schlong size that was the tipping point. That is the most likely explanation for that abrupt change of direction.

I so enjoy your reasoned responses. They remind me of a tiny dog barking furiously while safely behind a glass door. The union crazies embarrass themselves frequently without realizing it. Why not ease up on the rhetoric, CE750? We are just talking about stuff here, no harm intended. I would never say such things about you or the guys with whom I disagree. None of them are blocked, either.

 

[tdwnds1]

Despite all the rhetoric on both ends, you have to look at this from a purely business prospective. Fractional for CA has not nor has ever been profitable for the company even during the good times. The fact is that the new airiplane market remains depressed and fractional ownership reached a saturation point years ago. You have too many players in a stagnant (if not dead) market. CA had to change its business if it wants to stay at all viable. How this new business plan is going to work out is anyones guess. It is entirely possible that Textron wants to simply divest itself of the fractional/charter business as it sees it as a money loser.

Regardless, even one more pilot put out on the street yet another black eye on an already depressed industry. Theres some great people working there and I wish them the best of luck.

 

[gunfyter]

With all their unions, I expect SouthWest to go under any day now...

I don't know where I saw it or if its accurate ... but ... I heard CA lost $40 M last year. If true ... I estimate that If every Pilot worked for free ... they still would have lost money.

You make the call ... Union's fault? :bomb:

 

[rigger]

You do realize that an LOA is a contract, right?

Only if signed by both parties..... CA agrees to it but does not sign it till the entire contract is in force. Just like the parts agreed to already....just agreed to not signed yet.......

Dude guy you must be a ubber liberal cause you are always on the wrong side of every ideal.....I know this hurts a lot but if you remove your head from your butt you will be able to see better breath better and smell the roses and most importantly you will begin to regain feeling between your ears so that your mind can clearly see the reality of your situation...it sucks but it is what it is anyway!

 

[PCL_128]

I think it's pretty clear from the IBT's email that they're not looking for an LOA that won't be signed until after a full CBA is done. They're trying to get a furlough LOA to protect everyone now. Will they be successful? Maybe, but certainly not if idiots stop paying their dues and screw over their buddies who need those protections.

And yes, I am a liberal, and damned proud of it.

 

[G4dude]

With all their unions, I expect SouthWest to go under any day now...

I don't know where I saw it or if its accurate ... but ... I heard CA lost $40 M last year. If true ... I estimate that If every Pilot worked for free ... they still would have lost money.

You make the call ... Union's fault? :bomb:

I did not mean to damn all unions, although I don't like them, generally. I was pointing out that the timing of Citation Air's announcement seemed to follow the union election there. The company's expenses were scheduled to increase as a result of the union election. Whether or not you like unions, it is common knowledge that they increase operating costs wherever they exist.

 

[Smooth Cruz]

timing is most likely coincidental with union vote. I think we are seeing a restructuring of a conglomerate organization from the top down by a new ceo who was hired to turn every facet of textron into a profitable organization. when there is only managed aircraft at ca, cessna dumps all costs on the owner. unfortunately, a lot of great people are about to lose their jobs, I hope the company offers the same early retirement and severence as they have in the past.

 

[wacoflyr]

I care about the problems of other pilots a lot,...

This from the pilot who stated he would cross a picket line of pilots from his own company and scab. Does he really care about other pilot's problems? Maybe not.

 

[vrb115]

All you union haters have no idea. This company has not made $$$$$ since day one. Of course you are going to go out of business, when you have such smart people running things up there at 5 american lane. The union was voted in to try and help those pathetic managers up there to try and help.

 

[rigger]

I think it's pretty clear from the IBT's email that they're not looking for an LOA that won't be signed until after a full CBA is done. They're trying to get a furlough LOA to protect everyone now. Will they be successful? Maybe, but certainly not if idiots stop paying their dues and screw over their buddies who need those protections.

And yes, I am a liberal, and damned proud of it.

Sorry to here that.....At least your not the ubber liberal......

but I was really speaking to the fella named Dude something.....I think your spot on otherwise.

And why would the company sign a binding agreement now.....no incentive to do this. Especially knowing the union will be loosing any teeth it once had anyway due to the impending 180 furloughs.....course that will put the union with about 150-180 pilots total.....

Now who would you be screwing if you were in the bottom 50-75 by not paying your dues the next6 months your buddies who will get any shorted funds from the IBT that made hundreds of millions last year....or your family that faces you not bringing in a paycheck......that 600-1000 dollars could be paying your mortgage instead of hoffas rolls Royce and the IBT private jet!

As I said earlier if the IBT cared about us the way they say...they should just step up ( like they are trying to force the company to do) and just put the guys in question dues on hold.......This is up to the IBT they have the power to help the brothers and sisters themselves.....instead you get a letter that says PAY US YOUR DUES!!!!! That my friend is PATHETIC......

 

[PCL_128]

And why would the company sign a binding agreement now.....no incentive to do this.

You'd be surprised. Companies frequently like to get that sort of stuff in a consensual agreement in this kind of situation. They have more leverage to get some of the stuff that they may want to end up in a final contract by giving the union some things that they need now for members soon to be furloughed. Maybe they say no, maybe they bargain. But either way, the union needs to try, and they need the continued support of the membership if they have any chance of success.

As I said earlier if the IBT cared about us the way they say...they should just step up ( like they are trying to force the company to do) and just put the guys in question dues on hold.......This is up to the IBT they have the power to help the brothers and sisters themselves

Actually, it's not that simple. A union can't just decide that a small group of active members isn't going to pay dues while all of the other active members have to keep paying dues. That's considered "arbitrary" and "discriminatory," which is a violation of the union's DFR obligations under the law.

.....instead you get a letter that says PAY US YOUR DUES!!!!! That my friend is PATHETIC......

Hey, I won't tell you that their letter was very nice. The IBT isn't exactly known for its subtlety and nuance. It was probably in bad taste to start off the whole situation with that. But the situation doesn't change just because the IBT isn't good with subtlety in their communications. They still need the support (both financial and otherwise) from the membership in order to have any ability to secure protections for your pilots. That's what is important.

 

[The Dude Abides]

Only if signed by both parties..... CA agrees to it but does not sign it till the entire contract is in force. Just like the parts agreed to already....just agreed to not signed yet.......

Still wrong. Figure it out.

Dude guy you must be a ubber liberal cause you are always on the wrong side of every ideal.....I know this hurts a lot but if you remove your head from your butt you will be able to see better breath better and smell the roses and most importantly you will begin to regain feeling between your ears so that your mind can clearly see the reality of your situation...it sucks but it is what it is anyway!

I'm not sure what an "ubber" liberal is, but if I were "ubber" what difference would it make? It's irrelevant. Wanna' know my religious views too?

I believe that the most apropos retort to your obviously well thought out and constructive statement is, according to my 10 year old, I'm rubber, you're glue, whatever you say bounces off me and sticks to you!

C'mon, Rigger. (See? I even capitalized your name . . . a sign of respect). You gotta' have better than just trying to lay false allegations and point fingers. The IBT did nothing wrong in their letter. They were responding to guys who were saying that they were going to stop paying dues. Not irreverent (sp?), not out of line, completely appropriate. The letter was exactly what they should have said.

Times are going to be tough ahead. The last thing we need is guys like you who are just angry at everything. Pin it on the union or BS or Cessna/Textron, whatever makes you feel better, but you still haven't come up with a single FACT.

Tomorrow at 7pm eastern we'll have the answers.