Citation X Info

[FlexNoMore]

Looking at adding a "X" to current fleet. Have heard all the sales talk and praise. Looking for any insight offered about life in,around and with the "X".

Thanks.......FNM

 

[FracCapt]

Several guys I know that fly it call it the "fastest thing between service centers"....if that tells you anything.

 

[Diesel]

Which number are you looking at. Early model numbers have some serious problems. Plus they have to carry balast fuel.

 

[FlexNoMore]

If we do acquire an "X" it willl be a new aircraft acquisition, aircraft will be based overseas, I have prevously heard unkind things about the "X's" reliability.

Interested in range at LRC vs high mach cruise, what is LRC mach number, never hear anyone talk about that number. Are 3000 NM legs real at LRC Westbound as well as Eastbound.

Thanks or the help.....FNM

 

[G100driver]

LRC .... in a X? I though guys bought those for speed. Wanna go 3000 nm every day then a Falcon 50EX would be a great ticket. Nicer more quite cabin as well. Less MX issues as well.

I know, boss wants to go fast, right? ,)

 

[Shamus]

I fly a LJ-60 with a guy who is a "X" captian as well, and he said there really isn't a LRC, you just go higher for a better fuel burn. Don't know if that really helps.

 

[miles otoole]

I fly a LJ-60 with a guy who is a "X" captian as well, and he said there really isn't a LRC, you just go higher for a better fuel burn. Don't know if that really helps.

And what if the jet stream hitting him in the face is higher?

 

[Diesel]

LRC is about .80 to .82

Plan on about 6hrs and then landing with about 3000lbs in the tanks. You can go farther if you want. I like to land with 2000lbs in the tanks. 3000 just makes me smile.

Problem with a falcon 50 is LRC is like .74 or .75.

3000 every day. probably not going to happen. I do know a guy that runs a X from south america to MIA twice a month.

He starts out at 470 then drifts up to 490 or 510. 8.5hrs in the seat.

 

[cezzna]

Long range cruise is .82, don't know the fuel burn numbers off the top of my head. We regularly do a 2600 NM leg, it's also South america to the US so really no wind issues on that route. It's a six hour flight sometimes as low as 5.5. Higher is better in this airplane. 430, 450, 470 are the regular altitudes. You won't do 92 at those altitudes though, more like 88 or 490 KTAS. LRC is about 460 KTAS if I remeber correctly. At 450 and 88 you'll see about 800 pph per side. 3000 miles against a 100 jet probably wouldn't work too well. It has an NBAA 3400 mile range but that is NBAA perfect numbers crap. If you fly it on a route (like in South america) where you can descend when you want, it may be possible, but a falcon 900 or a 50 EX may fit the bill better. Ours has been pretty dependable lately. Most maintenance issues involve false CAS messages( there are like 300+ messages you can get). Occasionaly the only way to clear them is to completely depower the airplane and start over. It needs a CTL-ALT-DEL on the panel. Mechanically agreat airplane but more computerized than it needs to be.

 

[Senior_Citizen]

You Should consider tha Chalenger300 and the Gulfstream G200, the roomier cabin will be a high value item on 3000 nm trips, but consider a longer range a/p if you're routes winds may no help some times (a Da2000/2000EX or a Gulf G-350 or a Challenger 604).

 

[miles otoole]

The 300 LRC and HSC are both .80 so no compromising speed for stretching the range. From what I remember hearing it has a flat floor and loves the short runways-no engine TBO either.

 

[GVFlyer]

GM is replacing their Citaion X's with Gulfstream G350's because their Cessnas are unreliable.

US Bank grounded their Citation X's over what the pilots felt to be safety issues and are now supported by TAG.

GV

 

[G100driver]

What were the issues with X?

The only ones that I have heard were of the early ones with the seals?

Got outta Bern. Who would have figured IFR issues in August. Live and learn

 

[HawkerF/O]

The "X" is the fastest bizjet between 2 service centers..........

 

[SCT]

"The "X" is the fastest bizjet between 2 service centers.........."



We have over 1500 hrs on our mid 150 serial number "X" and have had absolutly no major problems with the plane. Like any new a/c, the early ones had some issues. And even if a X did have to stop for maintenance at a Cessna Service Center........it still would beat the Hawker!!!

 

[HawkerF/O]

"The "X" is the fastest bizjet between 2 service centers.........."



We have over 1500 hrs on our mid 150 serial number "X" and have had absolutly no major problems with the plane. Like any new a/c, the early ones had some issues. And even if a X did have to stop for maintenance at a Cessna Service Center........it still would beat the Hawker!!!

Except in fuel burn, DOCs, crosswinds, and aquisition cost.

 

[Kingairrick]

LRC is about .80 to .82


Problem with a falcon 50 is LRC is like .74 or .75.

Yeah, but we can do 3000 miles at .80, don't have to do LRC...

 

[Senior_Citizen]

Yeah, but we can do 3000 miles at .80, don't have to do LRC...

Bombardier NBAA IFR nubers says the CL300 can do 3100NM at .80 w/8 passengers and 2 crew.

Also Cessna NBAA IFR nubers says the Ce750 can do 2950NM at .82 w/8 passengers.

CL300 cost about the same than the C.X and DOCs are lower, rommier cabin, an better field performance, maintenaince oriented design (all LRU can be repalced in 20 minutes, single slot flaps ...) as I see is a no brain decision.

Of course the C.X is a mature airframe, the CL300 could have undetected "surpises", this is the only C.X. advantage (and the speed).

I'll consider for a 3000 nm service a plane with at least 3600 nm range at full load and in hot day: Bombardier CL604 or Dassault Falcon 2000EX EASY, but if you have field length or budget restictions the Da-50EX can do the job.

 

[simbo]

"Except in fuel burn, DOCs, crosswinds, and aquisition cost."
Is the crosswind issues with the X due to the upwind wing-tip clearance from the ground?

 

[HawkerF/O]

Roger That!

"Except in fuel burn, DOCs, crosswinds, and aquisition cost."
Is the crosswind issues with the X due to the upwind wing-tip clearance from the ground?

 

[PseudoName]

Roger That!

So, you have lots of time in the X, HawkerF/O?

That's right, didn't think so!

 

[Doug Parker]

.


All you guys pushing the C300 - Don't forget about the wonderful and professional service that is always (read - never) done properly at those Bombardier Service Centers.







.

 

[miles otoole]

.


All you guys pushing the C300 - Don't forget about the wonderful and professional service that is always (read - never) done properly at those Bombardier Service Centers.






.

Maybe because many (read: most) corporate flight departments are soon to be in the process of transitioning from the X to the 300.

 

[xjetav8er]

More runways

We operate an early model X and have had very little maintenence issues. We operated a 650 before the X and it was in the shop about twice as much as the X. It is not a fun airplane to fly and feels like you are flying a video game.
The best part about flying the X is that many airports have a special runway to use that has a big X painted on each end.

 

[Diesel]

Crosswinds aren't bad in the airplane. You just know have to fly it differently than any other airplane. 727 guys do a great job because the wing clearances are the same.

Land in a crab and let the big trailing link take care of the rest.

 

[750driver]

Most maintenance issues involve false CAS messages( there are like 300+ messages you can get).

Most of our mx. issues revolved around electrical sensor glitches and CAS messages as Cezzna stated. Otherwise our X's were fine mechanically, but keep in mind ... we were flying these aircraft 800-900 hrs/ yr. IMO, Cessna never intended for these aircraft to be run like regional jets. Mx. issues are bound to come up.

Overall, I enjoyed flying the X

 

[Ace-of-the-Base]

US Bank grounded their Citation X's over what the pilots felt to be safety issues and are now supported by TAG.

GV

You knew about that rudder issue? What was your opinion on how that went down?

Ace

 

[smokinhole]

You knew about that rudder issue? What was your opinion on how that went down?

Ace

Ace,

What's the scoop on this? Upper rudder problem? I have'nt heard anything about this.

S.H.

 

[Senior_Citizen]

Ace,

What's the scoop on this? Upper rudder problem? I have'nt heard anything about this.

S.H.

The fuel line abrased by the rudder's wires.

 

[smokinhole]

The fuel line abrased by the rudder's wires.

Thanks, this is news to me. Am I correct in assuming this was delt with by Cessna and corrected in later serial numbers? We run two late model (2003 & 2004) X's and I have'nt come across any mention of this issue before now. It must have really scared the crap out of someone to get them to sell the A/C.

We fly ours on average of 600-800 hrs a year with an above average number of cycles and they have great dispatch reliability. I've been in the aircraft a year and have only been unable to fly a trip once due to a stuck start valve. The reliability and maintenence on the X has been no worse than any other aircraft I've operated. And by the way......the wing tip clearance issue is a non-issue. The plane just takes a certain technique with heavy crosswinds.

S.H.