Citation X Info

[PseudoName]

Roger That!

So, you have lots of time in the X, HawkerF/O?

That's right, didn't think so!

 

[Doug Parker]

.


All you guys pushing the C300 - Don't forget about the wonderful and professional service that is always (read - never) done properly at those Bombardier Service Centers.







.

 

[miles otoole]

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All you guys pushing the C300 - Don't forget about the wonderful and professional service that is always (read - never) done properly at those Bombardier Service Centers.






.

Maybe because many (read: most) corporate flight departments are soon to be in the process of transitioning from the X to the 300.

 

[xjetav8er]

More runways

We operate an early model X and have had very little maintenence issues. We operated a 650 before the X and it was in the shop about twice as much as the X. It is not a fun airplane to fly and feels like you are flying a video game.
The best part about flying the X is that many airports have a special runway to use that has a big X painted on each end.

 

[Diesel]

Crosswinds aren't bad in the airplane. You just know have to fly it differently than any other airplane. 727 guys do a great job because the wing clearances are the same.

Land in a crab and let the big trailing link take care of the rest.

 

[750driver]

Most maintenance issues involve false CAS messages( there are like 300+ messages you can get).

Most of our mx. issues revolved around electrical sensor glitches and CAS messages as Cezzna stated. Otherwise our X's were fine mechanically, but keep in mind ... we were flying these aircraft 800-900 hrs/ yr. IMO, Cessna never intended for these aircraft to be run like regional jets. Mx. issues are bound to come up.

Overall, I enjoyed flying the X

 

[Ace-of-the-Base]

US Bank grounded their Citation X's over what the pilots felt to be safety issues and are now supported by TAG.

GV

You knew about that rudder issue? What was your opinion on how that went down?

Ace

 

[smokinhole]

You knew about that rudder issue? What was your opinion on how that went down?

Ace

Ace,

What's the scoop on this? Upper rudder problem? I have'nt heard anything about this.

S.H.

 

[Senior_Citizen]

Ace,

What's the scoop on this? Upper rudder problem? I have'nt heard anything about this.

S.H.

The fuel line abrased by the rudder's wires.

 

[smokinhole]

The fuel line abrased by the rudder's wires.

Thanks, this is news to me. Am I correct in assuming this was delt with by Cessna and corrected in later serial numbers? We run two late model (2003 & 2004) X's and I have'nt come across any mention of this issue before now. It must have really scared the crap out of someone to get them to sell the A/C.

We fly ours on average of 600-800 hrs a year with an above average number of cycles and they have great dispatch reliability. I've been in the aircraft a year and have only been unable to fly a trip once due to a stuck start valve. The reliability and maintenence on the X has been no worse than any other aircraft I've operated. And by the way......the wing tip clearance issue is a non-issue. The plane just takes a certain technique with heavy crosswinds.

S.H.

 

[GVFlyer]

You knew about that rudder issue? What was your opinion on how that went down?

Ace

I hate to find myself in the position of defending Cessna, but to paraphrase the bard, it was much ado about very little. I'd be more concerned that the X is a handfull in a crosswind.

GV

 

[Senior_Citizen]

http://www.ainonline.com/issues/06_05/06_05_apu_78.htm

APU fuel line chafing prompts
Service Letter for Citation X
by David A. Lombardo

Ed Duracka, director of aircraft maintenance for Safeway Insurance, made a chilling discovery while complying with Cessna Alert Service Letter (ASL) 750-29-09. The Romeoville, Ill., Lewis University Airport-based flight department operates a Cessna Citation X.

“I had just finished doing the required hydraulic tube/air duct interference inspection and was just looking things over to be sure there were no other visible problems in the area,” he said. “It was obvious the elevator control cable was sawing through the APU fuel feed line.” Duracka said he consulted the maintenance manual, which noted that chafing cannot exceed 10 percent of the wall thickness. “Our APU fuel line was 50 to 60 percent chafed through,” he said.

After replacing the fuel line, Duracka rechecked its proximity to the elevator control cable. Once again the two came in contact. “I just put a little hand pressure on the (fuel) line, causing it to relocate away from the cable, added a chafe strip and that solved the problem,” he said.

Bill Konn, Safeway’s chief pilot, was upset. “The aircraft has only 1,180 hours on it,” he told AIN. “Ed said he’d called Cessna but it sounded to me as if Cessna wasn’t overly concerned, so I called them myself; they told me they were looking into it. I felt disappointed with the conversation when I was told it’s really not a problem if the APU isn’t running!”

Keeping the APU Running In Flight
Konn said that piece of advice offered little consolation because it’s common for operators to keep the APU running through takeoff and initial climb. “We will also run the APU when we reach 50 miles out from the destination or whenever we’re below 10,000 feet,” he said. “It’s a backup for the generators and it can facilitate an in-flight restart should a problem occur. You know, a lot of operators do that as both a convenience and a safety issue, but the point is the APU is used a lot more than just on the ground.”

Konn explained his concern. “The APU line is part of the left fuel system. If the line ruptures in flight while the APU is running, the motive flow pressure sensor turns on the left boost pump to boost the lost pressure, and it’d be like an atomizer. Imagine what would happen if there were any kind of ignition to touch off the vapor. It would be like a surface-to-air missile hitting the aircraft!”

Konn called a few other Citation X operators. “In no time at all I found two other aircraft that had the same problem,” he said. “So I posted the problem on the NBAA Web site and received a whole bunch of e-mails from people I didn’t even know thanking me. That’s when I called Cessna back.”

During his second telephone conversation with Cessna he was told they had already identified another operator in California with the same problem. Konn asked who it was and when he was told he said, “Right, they called you because I called them and alerted them to the problem.”

Hector Fuentes, systems engineer for Cessna’s Citation Team X, told AIN that after receiving Duracka’s initial phone call the company began looking into the problem and as a result issued Citation ASL750-49-09 (Feb. 25, 2005) Auxiliary Power–APU Fuel Line Inspection. The letter pertains to model 750s, serial numbers -0001 through -0240. Fuentes said the company has already incorporated the equivalent of the Service Letter on production airplanes-0241 and after.

Required Inspection of APU Fuel Line
The Service Letter details a mandatory inspection of the APU fuel tube assembly. Operators must make the inspection within 150 flight hours or 60 days, whichever occurs first, from the date of receipt of the letter. The letter states that the suspected elevator control cables have aluminum cladding over the cables and requires that the fuel tube assembly be replaced if any of the following exist: nicks or scratches exceeding 0.002 inch deep; any scratch that runs lengthwise; chafing that exceeds 10 percent of the wall thickness (wall thickness is 0.28 inch); or the tube is dented beyond 5 percent of the 0.375-inch outside diameter).

The letter also requires operators to look for chafing damage on the elevator control cables and to be sure that the fuel tube assembly has sufficient clearance. It needs a minimum of half an inch clearance from the elevator control cable and at least 0.13-inch clearance with other fluid lines, electrical wiring and the airframe structure.

Authorized Citation service facilities, individual operators or other maintenance faculties can submit a credit claim form for the parts kits required to comply with the Service Letter. The offer expires July 1, 2005.

 

[Senior_Citizen]

A comment about Cessna, we operated a CJ2 for 3 years with absolutely no issues, just std mx.

About the Ce-750 really is a great A/C and now mature and very reliable, but too small and expensive for the money.

The max performance of the C.X maybe awesome but isn't practical, the common trip for a BizJet is between 800-900 nm, on these legs the saved time on the C.X is only 7-8 minutes, I'll choose for a faster climb or more room.

 

[smokinhole]

Thanks for that. More recent than I expected. I think I'll run down and check out the books and pop a few panels in the morning.

S.H.

 

[HMR]

Just curious: I've heard again and again @ FSI that both the G100 and G200 can keep up with the X from LAX-TEB.

Fact or coffee-break B.S.?

 

[smokinhole]

Just curious: I've heard again and again @ FSI that both the G100 and G200 can keep up with the X from LAX-TEB.

Fact or coffee-break B.S.?

Ahhhhhhh.....The milk run

Don't know squat about the G100/200 and I'm way too lazy to look it up right now. Unless it can run it consistantly at .88 to .91 and post times around +/- 4.3 hrs on around 9800lbs of fuel, I'm calling B.S. but, I've been wrong before. If I see a G200 pass me any time soon, I'll be the first to let you know! That G200's a nice lookin rig though....enjoy.

Regards,
S.H.

 

[Cat3C]

[.

US Bank grounded their Citation X's over what the pilots felt to be safety issues and are now supported by TAG.

GV[/QUOTE]

For what it's worth, TAG supported US bank prior to its merger between US bank and Firstar Bank approx 4 to 5 years ago. Perhaps there is a different reason.

 

[HawkerF/O]

So, you have lots of time in the X, HawkerF/O?

That's right, didn't think so!

Pseudo, slow your roll, smokin' Joe. Didn't know I needed time in the airplane to know what the fuel burn, DOCs, performance, and aquisition costs are. That info can be found anywhere. Are you from Kansas City? We probably know each other if you have worked out of MKC.

 

[G100driver]

delete .... wrong direction

 

[GVFlyer]

US Bank grounded their Citation X's over what the pilots felt to be safety issues and are now supported by TAG.

GV


For what it's worth, TAG supported US bank prior to its merger between US bank and Firstar Bank approx 4 to 5 years ago. Perhaps there is a different reason.

The Citation X's were grounded for over a year, then sold. Cessna got involved. The chief pilot and the maintenance director left, the flight department was disbanded, the remaining pilots went to TAG.

GV








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