Citation Shares Info???

[miles otoole]

Humprey, sorry I cant lower myself to work for Cshares, hate to break this to you, but you are in a dying industry.
My experience is with real flight departments and with owners that hire their own pilots, not Frac clones.
Most corporate jet owners like to know whos flying them, with the fracs, they dont have a clue whos in the cockpit.
Go enjoy the hotel rooms 15-16 days a month...I do have a life.
Like I said before keep screwing up, it helps the real Corp. pilots.

650

Hate to break this to you, but many corporate flight departments are dying on the vine. Many simply can't justify the overhead. Thank Sarbanes-Oxley for that. The fracs are becoming more and more efficient, are flying newer equipment, have better trained, higher time pilots, and have much more flexibility. Good luck in your career in real estate.

 

[HMR]

CS seems like a good choice if you want to go the Frac route. But C'mon...

The fracs are becoming more and more efficient

With 50% empty legs it would be hard to get any less efficient.

are flying newer equipment

i.e. The Ultra's I see with umpteen-thousand hours on them? Or the brand new stuff that will soon have umpteen-thousand hours?

have better trained, higher time pilots

"Higher time"? Than me? Probably. "Better trained"? Hmmm...Have you been to one of our department's PT91 recurrents? They make my old 135 training look like Romper Room.

and have much more flexibility.

N/A

Good luck in your career in real estate.

It does seem like a lot of the corp. guys around here are getting into real estate with all the time off.

The Frac guys that I know are good pilots and good people. They work hard and deserve A LOT better pay/QOL. I just don't think those things are part of the Frac business model. FWIW-the CS guys really do seem to be the happiest of the bunch that I meet on the road. Oh... And the best dressed.

 

[Texasskicker]

Aren't we all dying, really?

Humprey, sorry I cant lower myself to work for Cshares, hate to break this to you, but you are in a dying industry.

650

650 driver, you are flying a dyin' airplane cause they dont make em anymore.

Dying industry, you just do not understand the economics, or are in denial. Rich Johnny can fly fractional for a lot less money then if he plunks down the coin for his own jet. When his own jet breaks, he's back flyin charter.

With charter, you really dont know who is up front.

With corporate flyin, lets be honest. YOu got Jimmy bob and Billy joe up front who are buddies, flyin their one and only jet, no standardization, no oversight. OR maybe you got two jets, different equipment, and you got Homie G doin the maintenance, been to school on the ford tempo once.

You cannot beat frax for cost, quality of product, and crew experience. Crews are trained to 135 standards, checked and double checked by Check Airman during the 6 months, drug tested, and are FLYING probably 4 - 5 times as much as the typical corporate pilot per year. There's no substitude for experience-especially recency.

In your fatalistic rant, 650, you forgot to mention that we're gonna run outta jet fuel some day, and well all be out of a job! Global warming from jet exhaust is gonna heat up the earth so much that we wont need jets anymore, cause nobodys gonna be left.

In the meantime, for those fortunate enough to own private jet travel, fractional is now and for the forseeable future shall be the best way to go. Choices, flexibility, freedom, and they dont have to fight the boss or the next guy up on the food chain for a seat in the jet. Heck, they can even use it to go on vacation without wall street findin out somehow.

Keep it most real.

Tex.

 

[Dep676]

Hate to break this to you, but many corporate flight departments are dying on the vine. Many simply can't justify the overhead. Thank Sarbanes-Oxley for that. The fracs are becoming more and more efficient, are flying newer equipment, have better trained, higher time pilots, and have much more flexibility. Good luck in your career in real estate.

You obviously haven't seen one of our ragged out Hawkers at Options? Newer, the newest thing I have been on in a while was a 2001. Although the paint looked like a freighter. I am in the new Hawkers too. Just look at one of our pre-owned stuff. Higher time pilots? Where did you get that info? What is higher time to you?

 

[Tommy Boy]

Exactly! And the fractionals ARE on their way down. Owners are getting tired of different planes showing up, when they show up. Management are getting tired of pilots wanting to sleep and eat instead of fly 24hrs straight. And guess what... the economy is picking up again so they don't have their pick of pilots willing to take all the krap just to get a job. And the investors are tired of handing out more cash and getting nothing in return.

And as for crew experience? I fly with a million bozo's and I fly with a million good people too, but the fact is the pilots at the fracs are the same as the pilots everywhere else. We have guys who flew all the heavies for all the airlines out there, we have guys who sat right seat in a king air 90 for 6 months then came here, we have guys who flew in all the branches of the military, we have freight dogs, we have regional pilots, we have corporate pilots and we even have guys who just instructed. That sounds like every company I have ever worked for.

Just wait about another year or two and see what rolls out. There is much going on behind the sceeeeeens. NJ management is running scared because their pilots are finally getting a strong Union. And Raytheon knows their pilots aren't far behind. And this time it will pass.... A.S.A.P.

CS are the happiest? I know people over there and I will listen to them. They are no happier than anyone else. Also give them a couple of years till their wigs decides they want to improve profits/cut costs etc etc etc.

If you need a job, then the fracs are a place to keep flying and pay a couple of the bills till you get a good job. If you want to go somewhere and build pic time, forget it unless you want to wait for the attrition to upgrade. If you want to go somewhere you can make some money... forget it.

My suggestion would be to go to one of the good freighters like USA Jet. You will make decent money, upgrade fairly fast and get real quality time. The best pilots I fly with are the old freight dogs. But I have a slightly slanted point of view.

 

[650 driver]

IF all the 91 operations are going away, how on earth are those upset Netjet and other frac pilots going to get their wages up?
That seems to be the only crutch they have for changes, but according to your past posts Jimmy and Billy dont know how to return the form.
Oh and by the way, 91 opts do have standardization and are FSI or Simuflite trained, and we dont ground a aircraft for a broken overhead bulb in the cabin.
We dont fly around most of the time empty. The fracs are just large 135 operators, with new airplanes with high time airframes that decrease their value more quickly.
I bet the frac owners that renew after 5 years are a small percentage. At least with the same company.
Sorry you guys are in a sorry business model with built in problems.

650

 

[Diesel]

650 i really enjoy how you come on here and bitch about our job except you've never been in our job.

how many corporate flight departments closed over the last 3-4 years.

How many fractionals closed over the last 3-4 years.

Why don't you look up the "churn" of fractional owners coming up on their 5 year commitment. it's actually a very low percentage. But you wouldn't care in percentages just making wild assumptions in a buisness you know nothing about.

Enjoy your old plane that spends more time in a service center than any other plane on the line.

 

[Dep676]

Enjoy your old plane that spends more time in a service center than any other plane on the line.

Hey you must be talking about us at Options with that comment too.

 

[650 driver]

True Deisel, I cant lower myself to do the frac thing.
I have only been flying corporate longer than you guys could even spell Citation.
Like I said before, how are you guys going to make $150 grand when all the operators are folding up according to your posts?
Who says I fly the 650?
Go back to your hotel room or go hang out at the fbo at 0400 and bitch about your industry.

650

 

[Diesel]

actually i'm hanging out at home with the wife and dog.

Oh and i've got 7 days off straight in a row. You only see that in your dreams. (not flying the day and considering it your day off is not the same thing)