Citation Crash Today - AIR TREK, INC.

[SENECAII]

Your pretty hard on a company that paid your bills and got you to where you are at now.
Subtract all the hours that you have flying for that company and where would you be?

 

[kilroy]

Your pretty hard on a company that paid your bills and got you to where you are at now.
Subtract all the hours that you have flying for that company and where would you be?

There is no doubt in my mind that if it wasn't for them I wouldn't be were I am today.

But at the same time I have a hard time supporting a company that has promoted noncompliance and total disregard for safety, rules and proper Mx resulting in 6 deaths and multiple injuries .

Yes accidents and incidents do happen in the aviation world and people usually learn and take the proper measures and make policy changes to avoid any future accidents or incidents. But unfortuately Air-Trek thinks they are exempt from this and are untouchable.

It was very sad and unfortunate when the first fatal accident happen it should of never happened but it. This should of been an eye opener for them policies should have changed and the culture should have made a turn towards safety and compliance but they didn't.

So basically those poor individuals died for nothing. As most aviaton accidents are investigated we learn what to do and what not to do we don't continue on the same path and just hope all goes well as they have.

The bottom line is accidents happen and people are killed we must learn from these mistakes and do what ever we can to avoid them in the future. Now when a company has had this many accidents and continues to operate in the same manner it shows a complete lack of respect for the human life.

I'm not sure if you have read any of the below posts by people affect by many of these accidents by over 500 posts and growing every day of people affected by AT.

http://www.topix.net/forum/city/port-charlotte-fl/TKUCCBLKQSJ3SBV58

http://www.angelfire.com/az/cfi/

 

[SENECAII]

Most accidents are pilot error,so how can you blame a company for accidents that are pilots faults when the pilots are qualified (atleast by FAA standards) to fly the equipment.
Just because the standards of the company when hiring pilots may be lower than normal doesnt mean that the pilots are totally exempt from blame in accidents that have occured with AirTrek.

Hell if it was so bad,why does any pilot stay in their employ.

 

[kilroy]

Most accidents are pilot error,so how can you blame a company for accidents that are pilots faults when the pilots are qualified (atleast by FAA standards) to fly the equipment.
Just because the standards of the company when hiring pilots may be lower than normal doesnt mean that the pilots are totally exempt from blame in accidents that have occured with AirTrek.

Hell if it was so bad,why does any pilot stay in their employ.

Pilots do not stay there it is usually a stepping stone for the up and coming or a finally place for those that can't get a flying job elsewhere. There is an high turn over rate of crews.

You are correct ultimately it is the PIC responsibilty on every flight for the safety and compliance. But when its the companies culture to encourage and bully crews into getting the flight done no matter what sooner or later it catches up.

I guess looking from the outside in you may find it hard to understand the mentallity of the company. All people hear is the pilots F'cd up and thats it. You don't hear about the dangerous equipment they fly are always broken they fly the aircraft over weight day in and day out. Balance field (according to management) is only if you loose and engine and since these are jets they are reliable and shouldn't fail so go and take off out of the 4000 foot strip topped off in the summer time and it won't be a problem. And if you refuse to do it I have a stack of resumes on my desk of pilots that would kill for a chance to do this.

Any how the only thing I wanted to see is that AT become a safer enviroment after the first accident and be succesful company that people would love to work at. But instead it has become the opposite and untill you work there and truely see you will never understand the full depth of noncompliant and unsafe culture from what they live and breath.

 

[SENECAII]

You are correct ultimately it is the PIC responsibilty on every flight for the safety and compliance. But when its the companies culture to encourage and bully crews into getting the flight done no matter what sooner or later it catches up.

I still find it hard to believe that this company can convince grown men into risking their and their passengers lives in exchange for flight time and a paycheck.
Then the kicker being when the pilots that live through the experience wait until they are on to bigger and better things and other pilots have fallen victim to the supposed ways of the company that these pilots start protesting.
It seems that you pilots are just as much at fault for the deaths as anyone if you knew this was going on and waited until these accidents occured before crying about AirTrek.Shame on you guys.

By the way,I will never trade my life for working/flying in an unsafe inviroment especially when there are other lives at stake.There is NO excuse for working at a place if indeed what you say is true.

Why do pilots continue to work in such an unsafe inviroment if there was/is such a safety concern?

1. the pay?
2. building turbine/flight ?
3. having a job period?
4. or lastely,is there even an actual safety concern with AirTrek? and if there is and was, why didnt the pilots inform the proper authorities then before these deaths and other accidents occured, knowing of this supposed problems?

 

[kilroy]

Air-Trek

I still find it hard to believe that this company can convince grown men into risking their and their passengers lives in exchange for flight time and a paycheck.
Then the kicker being when the pilots that live through the experience wait until they are on to bigger and better things and other pilots have fallen victim to the supposed ways of the company that these pilots start protesting.


It seems that you pilots are just as much at fault for the deaths as anyone if you knew this was going on and waited until these accidents occured before crying about AirTrek.Shame on you guys.



By the way,I will never trade my life for working/flying in an unsafe inviroment especially when there are other lives at stake.There is NO excuse for working at a place if indeed what you say is true.

Why do pilots continue to work in such an unsafe inviroment if there was/is such a safety concern?

1. the pay?
2. building turbine/flight ?
3. having a job period?
4. or lastely,is there even an actual safety concern with AirTrek? and if there is and was, why didnt the pilots inform the proper authorities then before these deaths and other accidents occured, knowing of this supposed problems?

Fortunately you have never had to experience a place like this so it is easy for people like you to sit up on your throne and look down on those that have been here. As far as questioning if there is an actual safety concern with this place I think the proof is in the FAA and NTSB reports and the post of ex-employees not just pilots but medics and mechanics, if you still have to question there safety then perhaps you have your own issues

 

[SENECAII]

Ok,so there is safety issues with this company.I think you guys should have been complaining way before these accidents and subsequent deaths and injuries rather than waiting until you all found other jobs and moved on to complain about them.You almost could be held responsible in some manner by not saying something before now.
As I said, was it worth the money or flight time that you guys got when you were there and didnt say anything to have these accidents happen when you could have prevented them by making these demands then?

Fortunately you have never had to experience a place like this so it is easy for people like you to sit up on your throne and look down on those that have been here.

I just read this part over and over again.....you make it sound like you were forced to work there or something.Come one now dont make it sound like there was no other options for you in your life back then.....and if there wasnt then you are just as guilty for flying in those conditions as the owners of Air Trek that supposedly "forced" you to.
I was raised 30 miles south of Punta Gorda and had an option to apply at AirTrek back when I was "hungry" but I opted not to do to hearing how they worked the pilots etc. I may not have as many hours as pilots that flew for AirTrek but atleast I dont have to go to sleep at night wondering if I could have saved peoples lives be shedding light on unsafe working and flying conditions at AirTrek way before now.

Even the families of the deceased employees should not be blaming AirTrek because it was those employees option of whether or not to work under these conditions.Just like you pilots before them had the very same opportunities to find other work but opted to stay.By saying that this is and was going on knowingly is a slap in the face to the employees that died doing this job because it was their choice to be employed there not anyone elses.

 

[kilroy]

Ok,so there is safety issues with this company.I think you guys should have been complaining way before these accidents and subsequent deaths and injuries rather than waiting until you all found other jobs and moved on to complain about them.You almost could be held responsible in some manner by not saying something before now.
As I said, was it worth the money or flight time that you guys got when you were there and didnt say anything to have these accidents happen when you could have prevented them by making these demands then?



I just read this part over and over again.....you make it sound like you were forced to work there or something.Come one now dont make it sound like there was no other options for you in your life back then.....and if there wasnt then you are just as guilty for flying in those conditions as the owners of Air Trek that supposedly "forced" you to.
I was raised 30 miles south of Punta Gorda and had an option to apply at AirTrek back when I was "hungry" but I opted not to do to hearing how they worked the pilots etc. I may not have as many hours as pilots that flew for AirTrek but atleast I dont have to go to sleep at night wondering if I could have saved peoples lives be shedding light on unsafe working and flying conditions at AirTrek way before now.

Even the families of the deceased employees should not be blaming AirTrek because it was those employees option of whether or not to work under these conditions.Just like you pilots before them had the very same opportunities to find other work but opted to stay.By saying that this is and was going on knowingly is a slap in the face to the employees that died doing this job because it was their choice to be employed there not anyone elses.

Wow you really are a dick. First you say there really isn't a problem with Air-trek then you say well may-be there is a problem and now you are saying there is a problem and that is why you wouldn't work there.

And what makes you think pilots didn't complain and try to get things changed? They did but you wouldn't know that because your head is way to far up your a$$ to hear anyone. The FAA does not listen people every one has complained over and over with no results. Once employees reached the end of there limitations and realized no one is listening and things are become worse then they left.

The many pilots and medical crews did enjoy some of what they were doing helping people and furthering there career in the process. Now the fact that this company had so many issues most stuck with it as long as they can hoping and trying to change things for the better.

Now for you to say the families of the deceased shouldn't put any blame on Air-Trek without walking one day in an employees shoes or families shoes just proves to me what a F()cking Prick you are.

Why don't you come down off your throne and see what really goes on in the Part-135 world and may-be you'll get some appreciation of what people have to endure while climbing the ladder and paying their dues in aviation. Not every one gets to fly shiny new jets without seeing how sh!tty the aviation world can really be.

F()ck U Very Much

 

[SENECAII]

OK,I see your true colors now.No one is going to respect your opinion with this type of language.Even if it is said to a "f"ing prick.You really should grow up.....

You (and other pilots) condoned Airtreks aledged behavior by continuing to work there, bottom line.
If no one would work under those types of conditions,then they couldnt operate.So it IS the pilots faults for letting this supposed safety concerns go unchecked during their employ.

Again I say,Shame on you.


As for walking in AirTreks employees shoes.....I have the option of putting those shoes on and if there are safety concerns or if they work the pilots more than I would like to (two different things) then I have that choice.I chose not to and built up flight hours doing other flying jobs.........what would Walt do?

 

[SENECAII]

I got in to this career to enjoy it and fly safe equipment and not put people's lives at risk.If there was ever a concern for the safety of the flight I,as the captain would make a decision in the favor of the safety of myself,the passengers and people on the ground.
Aviation is a risky job in itself and I would never put flight hours and a paycheck over safety ever and I think this is where AirTrek and its pilots made their mistakes.The pilots that flew in those supposed conditions were just as guilty as AirTrek for putting peoples lives and property at risk if the in fact knowingly operated in an unsafe manner.

I still just cant believe that people would knowingly get into an unsafe plane break rules and put peoples lives and property at risk just to keep a job and log flight time.This is what you are telling everyone,correct?