Cincy Enquirer: Comair Wants to Cut Pay

[MedFlyer]

Our growth does not take from you and your growth does not take from us. On the contrary, as we get bigger there are more people to fill your aircraft. That keeps you from getting smaller and can even cause you to get bigger. That is the whole purpose of having any RJs at all.

Unfortunately, this is true in theory but not in practice. Comair has had RJ's at CVG for a decade now and has expanded massively adding hundreds of RJ flights to DL's CVG hub. Using your logic, all that feed from CMR RJ's should cause mainline planes to fill-up and allow for more mainline growth. But oddly enough, mainline hasn't grown at CVG...it has shrunk. Even when times were good, mainline DL continued to shrink at CVG. The same scenario has played out at SLC, DFW and MCO.

So show me where all of DL's RJ's have really led to mainline growth?

In theory, RJ's were supposed to feed the hubs and help make mainline stronger. In reality, the RJ's have been used by DL to replace mainline with a cheaper more flexible product. Even worse, as DL attempts to replace mainline flights with RJ's and cram passengers into RJ's for extremely long flight lengths (DFW-OAK, DFW-DCA), not only do they reduce feed into their hubs (fewer seats available), they send many frequent fliers and business travelers running to the competitors that still fly human sized planes.

 

[General Lee]

Surplus1,

Easy now bud, come on. I was agreeing with you that we needed to work it out. But, in some ways this really is about our bat, our ball, and our stadium because our PWA controls your growth. I know you don't like or agree with that, but it is the truth. When I said your side of the industry was "crumbling", I meant that the pay side of your industry is going to the lowest bidder---like the new contracts for Skywest and Chataqua---all going for growth. Delta management can see that. They will apply that to you as well. As far as Delta selling the 11 future 737-800s with options, they said it they were going to a "third party." Could that be a Lessor doing a sale-lease-back arrangement? Could be. We don't know. That actually frees up $500 million so we can maybe pay off some debt or maybe order something else. And, we are still getting 2 777s in 2005, which means there will be some INTL growth--which is better than nothing. We still have the 11 MD-11s in the desert, and some MD-88s that could be pulled out as well. I don't think we are "crumbling" either, we just had a huge Capt and FO bid that sees a lot of forward movement, especially for Captains.

As far as your pilots not feeling very altruistic, we already helped you out during your strike by giving financial support (along with the others), and not flying struck work----which has never really been acknowledged. Then our guys need help and not even an offer---no financial support returned, no bottom of the list hiring without seniority resignation like your sister airline ASA did, nothing. Well wait, there was an offer--but it had growth strings attached. I won't go into it anymore in this post-----you know my position---we did help you is some way---and you did not help our guys in their time of need. There is no way to get around that. That is why I don't see Dalpa rushing to your aid.

Again, I would like this to be resolved and for us to act like a "team" and both expand and go forward---but the RJDC mess and not helping our furloughs hasn't helped relations. Sure, management must love this, but they aren't getting what they want either---more CR7s. We have to come to some sort of an agreement that would benefit you guys and our furloughs somehow. (And after this CRM mess--I don't see any of them going to the bottom of any DCI list) I know you probably don't like that, but that is reality. I really don't know if Delta will buy any 100 seaters, and I don't know what Dalpa will do. Take care.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[doh]

Uh, let me give this the consideration it deserves...NO PAY CUT. I think that about sums it up for me!

 

[jetflyer]

I just think it's amazing how much money Comair is making. I know there's a lot of people that can't wait to see how much money Comair made in the third quarter as well, which was probably even more than the second. The economy is taking the turn.......

I think we should counter the companies proposal for the pilots and flight attendants to take pay cuts with a counter request for pay RAISES Shoot since we're doing so well, spread the wealth.

Or atleast we should use the words of Leo Mullin: " A contract is a contract!"

Jet

 

[doh]

General,
I have acknowledge the help you gave us and I continue to do so. I still don't acknowledge that the hiring decisions of CMR are the pilot's responsibility. Management has never cared what we thought. That should be abundantly clear from them asking for concessions. I take no blame for them not hiring Delta furloughs. That was management (successfully) pitting us against each other with a red herring.

 

[surplus1]

Surplus1,

Easy now bud, come on. I was agreeing with you that we needed to work it out. But, in some ways this really is about our bat, our ball, and our stadium because our PWA controls your growth. I know you don't like or agree with that, but it is the truth.

General,

From my perspective this is not a quarrel with you personally, it is only a discussion of the issues. You have some valid points which you believe are predominant. I believe that my points are more valid than yours. Thus we have a disagreement and a debate.

You are correct that your PWA in its present form controls our growth. That is why the legitimacy of our union negotiating those provisions that favor you and prejudice us is in question. I do not question the truth of your statement (above), I question the validity of those contractual provisions, and they are being challenged legally. We will both have to await the outcome of that challenge.

When I said your side of the industry was "crumbling", I meant that the pay side of your industry is going to the lowest bidder---like the new contracts for Skywest and Chataqua---all going for growth. Delta management can see that. They will apply that to you as well.

OK, that I understand and I can't say you're wrong. I can somewhat understand the Chautauqua (new) contract because of where they were before, but the actions of SKYW, ARW and ACA totally escape my reasoning. I think any pilot group that believes it can "buy" future growth by giving up its contract is extremely foolish.

AA, UAL and U all had legitimate reasons for making some concessions given the status of those companies. There may even be reason for the DAL pilots to make some concessions (that's your call). But those "regionals" had, in my opinion, no reason at all to do what they have done. It was a classic case of FUD. The fact that ALPA was complicit in several of those "deals" is also rotten to the core. I can guess why, but this isn't the place for that speculation.

Hopefully the CMR MEC will recognize several things, 1) There can be no more growth at DCI as long as your PWA remains unchanged (therefore promises of growth are a scam), 2) Comiar itself can't agree to "growth" __ Comair does not control that __ so unless Delta itself makes the "deal" it won't be worth the paper its written on; 3) The financial condition of CMR does not justify the need for concessions in its pilots' compensation package; 4) The folly of others should not govern CMR decisions; 5) Our brothers at ASA deserve our support __ undercutting their negotiations is not in our best interest or theirs; 6) The fact that the DL pilots would like us to "share" in their own concessions is irrelevant.

Since I doubt that DAL itself will agree to direct negotiations, and I doubt even more that ALPA would agree to that, the answer to the request for concessions should be: Not until you (Delta) have something realistic to offer in exchange.

We shall see how it all plays out.



I hope your future growth will meet your expectations and hopes and that all your furloughed pilots can be recalled to your own seniority list very soon.

General, I don't expect the DMEC to "rush to our aid". I don't even recall our asking that. You all are way too busy trying to use us as a bargaining chip in your own discussions with the Company. That I wish you would stop, but I don't expect you to do that either. You will not stop until the courts require you to do so. Maybe the courts will and maybe they won't, we'll both have to wait and see.

We have to come to some sort of an agreement that would benefit you guys and our furloughs somehow. (And after this CRM mess--I don't see any of them going to the bottom of any DCI list) I know you probably don't like that, but that is reality.

Meanwhile, I don't see anything even remotely similar to "Jets for Jobs" happening on this property. Perhaps I am misreading you, but it looks like you might be hinting at some form of J4J as a possible solution. Are you?

Maybe Delta will "order" Comair management to hire your furloughed pilots. If that happens it will be fine __ as long as it is in compliance with the CMR PWA. If you believe we have "CRM problems" now, which we do not [propganda from your management], I assure you that any attempt to place Delta pilots on the CMR list ahead of CMR pilots (like J4J) would create a lot more than "CRM problems". This is not Mesa, and I'm pretty sure that CMR pilots will not allow their own seniorty to be bypassed by Delta pilots (or any other pilots) under any foreseable circumstance. You would not do that and neither will we.

We do need a joint solution to the divisive issues, but that one isn't it.

Best regards,