CHQ Scabs? reminicient of GJ isn't it?

[jetfo]

Maybe your thread should be titled "capitalism sucks." CHQ pilots are flying under a union negotiated contract and did not take any concessions to obtain XJet flying. Your complaint would be better directed to CO managment rather than the pilots of CHQ. When will guys like you figure out that pilots do not bid on the flying? Pilot groups do not calculate profit margins and negotiate codeshares or fee for departure flying. That's all done by managment not pilots. CO, like many other airlines wants to diversify their feed arrangments and get away from having most of their eggs in the ExpressJet basket. Noone at CHQ is a scab in any sense of the word. Here's something else to consider. How do you feel about flying routes that could have been served by mainline Continental pilots? Does that make you a scab?

...

I think you owe the CHQ guys an apology for throwing the scab word around so loosely.

If you're one of the ones facing furlough best of luck in your future endeavors.

Maybe you should re-read my post. I specifically stated that I do not think that CHQ pilots are scabs, nor do I think GJ pilots are scabs. Unlike some others on this board, I do know what a scab is.

Furthermore, I agree with you that management is making these decisions and not the pilots.

The outcome still sucks and we should get together and think of something we can collectively do to stop the destruction of this formerly woerthwhile profession.

We are never going to stop pilots that are looking for a job from taking a job that's offered.

But, what we may be able to do together is to make these tactics so unattractive to management that they will cease and desist in further attemts at whipsawing.

Frankly, I don't see how money is being saved by dividing the Coex operations. Now you have two management teams running two separate airlines. The coordination of schedules is doubly difficult...

And, how much lower can you drive the wages before the pilot mills start closing when it becomes more attractive to go to truck driving school. Which it is probably now.

 

[beechcowboy]

AGREED. I think most of the folks on this forum are too young to really know what a scab is. I never dealt with unionization until I came to XJT. Colgan didn't have one, and I can tell you from 1st hand experience that XJT is worlds better. Whether that is union related, I am not 100% sure. I can tell you this, a scab is someone who crosses a picket line during a legal strike... end of story. CHQ are not scabs, however; there mgmt has brokered a deal whereby they will provide the service that XJT currently provides to CAL at a cheaper rate. Part of this cheaper rate is cheaper labor, I would guess. So, one could deduce that CHQ won the contract b/c of cheaper labor costs, which could be further deduced as lowering the bar. Still, I really believe this was less a cost issue and more about diversifying. I do not welcome CHQ into my backyard, but realistically, we may be in their backyard before long... who really knows. I have a million theories as to how to address this regional shuffle epidemic, whereby we all shuffle between codeshares every couple years. In the process we give ourselves coronaries worrying about how to care for our children and maintain our mortgage payments. Its not right, but there are so many forces in effect here... which one do we attack first: true unionization, fuel prices, whipsawing games, attacks on mainline scope? I don't know. For the majority of CHQ guys, I have no ill will, but for those immature pilots, CHQ, XJT, or any other, that like to spout off on these forums about scabs and taking flying, and bragging rights, and all that other crap. Please find something better to do with your time. When you are ready to sit down at the table, face to face, and talk about solving the problems at hand, give me a call. By the way, does anyone really believe that another pilot group WANTS to work for less?

 

[jetfo]

700 furloughs, well aren't you a ball of joy. This is extremely presumptious of you. First, none of us know why CAL mgmt made the decision they made. XJT offered up some very cost effective, risk sharing oriented deals to CAL... CAL did not want any part of it. I was privy to some of these details, and they were very fair. I can only assume that diversification was CAL's ultimate goal from start. There was very little loyalty to the carrier that has done so well for them in the past and present, and this is what I find most disheartening. I think most Jet Linker's would agree. I honestly don't believe that we ever were going to win the CAL flying for the 69 a/c capacity. It was, in essence, and exercise in futility. Finally, because I was privy to some of the specifics in our CPA proposals, I can also tell you that there are multiple deals being played out in the background as we speak. Announcements are pending final closure of said deals. What does this mean for all of us at XJT? Well, I am optomistic that we will finally achieve diversification in our codeshare, open ourselves up to new growth that we wouldn't have had we stayed exclusively with CAL, and eventually (time frame to be determined) introduce a different a/c into our fleet. All of this is, for lack of a better word, uncomfortable, because all that XJT has ever known is CAL. I feel uncomfortable, even with the inside knowledge that our future looks very promising. It still gives you pause and makes you think about how difficult it is to protect a decent quality of life in this industry (both financially and emotionally). As far as furloughs, I don't think you have a clue about what you are talking about. You just want to stir up discontent. You don't see mainline CAL, United, US Air, Delta, etc. pilots on here bashing each other and making rediculous presumptions.

First, I do not want to stir up discontent. You may well know more than I do about what is going on, but the fact is 69 aircraft of flying is going to CHQ "for diversification" as you said and that is certainly not a plus.

While there might be some future possibilities at ExpressJet, if the 69 a/c leave with no replacement flying, that does mean about 700 pilots will face furlough. Perhaps that can be averted and for the sake of those pilots, I hope it can.

It would have been much better, IMHO, had the flying stayed at ExpressJet. Both for the ExpressJet pilots and for the industry as a whole. In fact it would have been even better had ExpressJet remained wholly owned by CAL with every pilot having a CAL seniority number.

 

[flyer172r]

CHQ wasn't formed to directly hurt a pilot group, the same cannot be said for GJ. Whether you think CHQ is screwing over XJT guys right now or not, when CHQ was first formed it wasn't meant to screw anyone over. CHQ and GJ are not the same thing by a long shot.

 

[beechcowboy]

Oh yeah, and NO, GJ was not the same thing. That was a deplorable mgmt strategy to create an airline that would operate at a cheaper labor cost, with less attractive work rules than TSA. It worked, some people wanted to fly the 700 so badly that they were willing to buy into the new company. Personally, I think they should be ashamed, and I don't respect them. I don't know all the details of the TSA / GJ arrangement, but from talking with TSA guys and gals, sounds like it was a very raw deal. Legal, I don't know, but ethical, absolutely not. HOWEVER, this situation with CHQ is not even in the same ballpark. Don't link the CHQ guys with GJ folks... that is not fair.

 

[ilinipilot]

Lots of questions still need to be answered but I have some of my own?

1. What are the terms going to be for COEX to release the planes from CAL? Is this a situation where CAL makes the terms so unreasonable that they cannot be profitable? Everyone has said that COEX was not getting this to begin with, so what makes everyone think that now CAL will give COEX good lease terms???

2. COEX guys: is there too much capacity in the expressjet system? Is this a way for CAL to get rid of some feed, and reduce their departures. I would think their lucrative international routes would need feed, but is there too much capacity?

Thanks guys,
I have friends at COEX, this sucks but I applaud the attitudes of many so far in this discussion. Who thought a thread with scab, and GJ could be professional as it is

D

 

[jetfo]

CHQ wasn't formed to directly hurt a pilot group, the same cannot be said for GJ. Whether you think CHQ is screwing over XJT guys right now or not, when CHQ was first formed it wasn't meant to screw anyone over. CHQ and GJ are not the same thing by a long shot.

I am not sure whether GJ was created to hurt another pilot group. I thougth it was created to avoid AA scope issues. The same reason Republic Holdings created Shuttle and Republic.

But, aside from that I agree with you. I do not think CHQ pilots are screwing XJT pilots. Managenment at CAL is screwing XJT!

 

[XJAVRO]

Even with all of the undercutting that has gone on amongst regional airlines in the past, how many times have 700 pilots been left without jobs because 25% of their airplanes were transferred over to be flown by a different regional airline that will do it for less money? To the best of my knowledge, it hasn't happened before. I'm getting tired of hearing about how it has been happening everywhere else and now it is XJT's turn. No, this HASN'T been going on everywhere else.

This HAS happened at other airlines. Look at AWAC. United put all of thier flying out to bid and they lost. 85 planes I think, and they only found homes for 70 of those. To do that they are to invest $150,000,000 You're not alone, this industry just sucks.

 

[SkyBoy1981]

Lots of questions still need to be answered but I have some of my own?

1. What are the terms going to be for COEX to release the planes from CAL? Is this a situation where CAL makes the terms so unreasonable that they cannot be profitable? Everyone has said that COEX was not getting this to begin with, so what makes everyone think that now CAL will give COEX good lease terms???

The terms have already been agreed upon. The higher lease rates are still competitive if XJT keeps the aircraft, since the original lease rates were very low to begin with. Thankfully, of the 69 airplanes, the large majority of them are XR's which are still very marketable.

2. COEX guys: is there too much capacity in the expressjet system? Is this a way for CAL to get rid of some feed, and reduce their departures. I would think their lucrative international routes would need feed, but is there too much capacity?

Actually, I wouldn't rule out the possibility that this could be CAL's way of reducing RJ routes. I'm sure CAL expected that if they announced to pull 69 airplanes from XJT's Express service, XJT would then start looking for other ways to utilize those airplanes outside of CAL. It is is quite possible that they planned it that way all along as an attempt to cut their regional jet feed.

 

[jetfo]

I am not sure whether GJ was created to hurt another pilot group. I thougth it was created to avoid AA scope issues. The same reason Republic Holdings created Shuttle and Republic.

But, aside from that I agree with you. I do not think CHQ pilots are screwing XJT pilots. Managenment at CAL is screwing XJT!

That's it, it just occurred to my why CAL chose CHQ. I'll bet they are expecting scope relief from the CAL MEC in the future and plan on expanding their express operations with the EMB170/175's that CHQ is already operating for US and UAL.

I'll bet you a dollar that's what is going on, although I don't know why they couldn't have done that at XJT. Maybe because Republic already has a large number of orders and options for the EMB170/175's. After all, CAL is the last legacy carrier to yet capitulate on scope and the only one that had been able to hold the line at 50 seats.

 

[SYX328]

Shuttle was not created it was bought out. Republic was however formed to operate the E170 for US.

 

[8HourPilot]

So, how bout this, if you do not want to stir up discontent, why dont you get this scab thread tossed out and start a thread that addresses the issues. Your wording is completely incorrect.

First, I do not want to stir up discontent. You may well know more than I do about what is going on, but the fact is 69 aircraft of flying is going to CHQ "for diversification" as you said and that is certainly not a plus.

While there might be some future possibilities at ExpressJet, if the 69 a/c leave with no replacement flying, that does mean about 700 pilots will face furlough. Perhaps that can be averted and for the sake of those pilots, I hope it can.

It would have been much better, IMHO, had the flying stayed at ExpressJet. Both for the ExpressJet pilots and for the industry as a whole. In fact it would have been even better had ExpressJet remained wholly owned by CAL with every pilot having a CAL seniority number.

 

[markminus100]

Wasn't XJT purchasing CHQ?

 

[Flyin4Free]

I didn't feel like reading through all the BS so forgive me if this has been said....Do you really think Continental wanted to have all their eggs in one basket? Even if XJT was the cheapest why would they want to keep ALL of their flying with them. Look what happened to Comair/Delta....Comair went on strike and hurt Delta with huge financial losses. Contract comes up again at XJT and that might happen to them. Just a thought...I have nothing to base this on.

I was recently hired at Republic...CHQ family...please don't hate me!!!I was furloughed from Mesaba after taking it up the a$$ and just need a job!!! Pay scale's pretty close to XJT and everyone else!

 

[arthompson]

F4F congrats on the job. CHQ isn't my favorite but I understand the need to support yourself, thats how I ended up where I am.