CHQ Scabs? reminicient of GJ isn't it?

[ilinipilot]

Lots of questions still need to be answered but I have some of my own?

1. What are the terms going to be for COEX to release the planes from CAL? Is this a situation where CAL makes the terms so unreasonable that they cannot be profitable? Everyone has said that COEX was not getting this to begin with, so what makes everyone think that now CAL will give COEX good lease terms???

2. COEX guys: is there too much capacity in the expressjet system? Is this a way for CAL to get rid of some feed, and reduce their departures. I would think their lucrative international routes would need feed, but is there too much capacity?

Thanks guys,
I have friends at COEX, this sucks but I applaud the attitudes of many so far in this discussion. Who thought a thread with scab, and GJ could be professional as it is

D

 

[jetfo]

CHQ wasn't formed to directly hurt a pilot group, the same cannot be said for GJ. Whether you think CHQ is screwing over XJT guys right now or not, when CHQ was first formed it wasn't meant to screw anyone over. CHQ and GJ are not the same thing by a long shot.

I am not sure whether GJ was created to hurt another pilot group. I thougth it was created to avoid AA scope issues. The same reason Republic Holdings created Shuttle and Republic.

But, aside from that I agree with you. I do not think CHQ pilots are screwing XJT pilots. Managenment at CAL is screwing XJT!

 

[XJAVRO]

Even with all of the undercutting that has gone on amongst regional airlines in the past, how many times have 700 pilots been left without jobs because 25% of their airplanes were transferred over to be flown by a different regional airline that will do it for less money? To the best of my knowledge, it hasn't happened before. I'm getting tired of hearing about how it has been happening everywhere else and now it is XJT's turn. No, this HASN'T been going on everywhere else.

This HAS happened at other airlines. Look at AWAC. United put all of thier flying out to bid and they lost. 85 planes I think, and they only found homes for 70 of those. To do that they are to invest $150,000,000 You're not alone, this industry just sucks.

 

[SkyBoy1981]

Lots of questions still need to be answered but I have some of my own?

1. What are the terms going to be for COEX to release the planes from CAL? Is this a situation where CAL makes the terms so unreasonable that they cannot be profitable? Everyone has said that COEX was not getting this to begin with, so what makes everyone think that now CAL will give COEX good lease terms???

The terms have already been agreed upon. The higher lease rates are still competitive if XJT keeps the aircraft, since the original lease rates were very low to begin with. Thankfully, of the 69 airplanes, the large majority of them are XR's which are still very marketable.

2. COEX guys: is there too much capacity in the expressjet system? Is this a way for CAL to get rid of some feed, and reduce their departures. I would think their lucrative international routes would need feed, but is there too much capacity?

Actually, I wouldn't rule out the possibility that this could be CAL's way of reducing RJ routes. I'm sure CAL expected that if they announced to pull 69 airplanes from XJT's Express service, XJT would then start looking for other ways to utilize those airplanes outside of CAL. It is is quite possible that they planned it that way all along as an attempt to cut their regional jet feed.

 

[jetfo]

I am not sure whether GJ was created to hurt another pilot group. I thougth it was created to avoid AA scope issues. The same reason Republic Holdings created Shuttle and Republic.

But, aside from that I agree with you. I do not think CHQ pilots are screwing XJT pilots. Managenment at CAL is screwing XJT!

That's it, it just occurred to my why CAL chose CHQ. I'll bet they are expecting scope relief from the CAL MEC in the future and plan on expanding their express operations with the EMB170/175's that CHQ is already operating for US and UAL.

I'll bet you a dollar that's what is going on, although I don't know why they couldn't have done that at XJT. Maybe because Republic already has a large number of orders and options for the EMB170/175's. After all, CAL is the last legacy carrier to yet capitulate on scope and the only one that had been able to hold the line at 50 seats.

 

[SYX328]

Shuttle was not created it was bought out. Republic was however formed to operate the E170 for US.

 

[8HourPilot]

So, how bout this, if you do not want to stir up discontent, why dont you get this scab thread tossed out and start a thread that addresses the issues. Your wording is completely incorrect.

First, I do not want to stir up discontent. You may well know more than I do about what is going on, but the fact is 69 aircraft of flying is going to CHQ "for diversification" as you said and that is certainly not a plus.

While there might be some future possibilities at ExpressJet, if the 69 a/c leave with no replacement flying, that does mean about 700 pilots will face furlough. Perhaps that can be averted and for the sake of those pilots, I hope it can.

It would have been much better, IMHO, had the flying stayed at ExpressJet. Both for the ExpressJet pilots and for the industry as a whole. In fact it would have been even better had ExpressJet remained wholly owned by CAL with every pilot having a CAL seniority number.

 

[markminus100]

Wasn't XJT purchasing CHQ?

 

[Flyin4Free]

I didn't feel like reading through all the BS so forgive me if this has been said....Do you really think Continental wanted to have all their eggs in one basket? Even if XJT was the cheapest why would they want to keep ALL of their flying with them. Look what happened to Comair/Delta....Comair went on strike and hurt Delta with huge financial losses. Contract comes up again at XJT and that might happen to them. Just a thought...I have nothing to base this on.

I was recently hired at Republic...CHQ family...please don't hate me!!!I was furloughed from Mesaba after taking it up the a$$ and just need a job!!! Pay scale's pretty close to XJT and everyone else!

 

[arthompson]

F4F congrats on the job. CHQ isn't my favorite but I understand the need to support yourself, thats how I ended up where I am.

 

[panamclipper]

That's it, it just occurred to my why CAL chose CHQ. I'll bet they are expecting scope relief from the CAL MEC in the future and plan on expanding their express operations with the EMB170/175's that CHQ is already operating for US and UAL.

I'll bet you a dollar that's what is going on, although I don't know why they couldn't have done that at XJT. Maybe because Republic already has a large number of orders and options for the EMB170/175's. After all, CAL is the last legacy carrier to yet capitulate on scope and the only one that had been able to hold the line at 50 seats.

I think you hit the nail on the head. In surveying the business landscape I have become a grand theorist for the domino effect. Once one company puts a factory in Mexico, India, timbuktu then their competitors have to do the same to compete against cheaper labor, cheaper costs and of course cheaper products. The same domino effect is going on in the airline industry, with one airline deploying RJ's at a cheaper cost with more seats then domino!!! They all have to follow suit to compete... Yes, certainly management could have cut a deal with Express Jet and they could add 70 seats to their certificate if they cared about the future of the Express Jet Pilots and Continental Express. However, they decided to put the flying out to bid, and with the competitive nature of the bid process they probably lowered the overall cost of their RJ flying.

I think the same thing is going on with wages. The American public is only interested in cheap. If they were willing to pay slightly hire prices and purchase American products, we would be able to keep our wages higher, our benefits better and make America stronger rather then weaker.

 

[panamclipper]

The other problem is you cannot expect experienced pilots to lose their jobs be displaced and have no place to go except for very low paying jobs. This is a huge problem with the upheavel in the industry and the constant churning of jobs. The current system doesn't work in the deregulated airline industry.

 

[Jack Mahogoff]

I am not sure whether GJ was created to hurt another pilot group. I thougth it was created to avoid AA scope issues. The same reason Republic Holdings created Shuttle and Republic.

Wrong. All pilots at Republic Airways Holdings fly under the Chautauqua Master Seniority List. No doubt we gave up something to get this (highest pay in industry? Who knows.). You could've offered me FedEx A380 pay but if you don't have an airplane to fly because your flying was transferred to "another carrier" and all you were worried about was being the highest pay in the industry, your pay rate will end up at precisely $0.00. Do you think the pilots at Trans States would take our current CBA to have all flying on the same list? I thought so.

 

[SkyBoy1981]

You could've offered me FedEx A380 pay but if you don't have an airplane to fly because your flying was transferred to "another carrier" and all you were worried about was being the highest pay in the industry, your pay rate will end up at precisely $0.00.

How ironic.

 

[CoATP]

C'mon Somebody say "Race to the Bottom"

 

[Captain Overs]

CHQ and MESA are basically one in the same. Someday CHQ pilots will wake up and realize it wasn't worth takeing crappy pay to fly a 70 seater. Enjoy it now, the novelty wears off just like the shine on the paint.

 

[EMBPILOT1]

What, just like Comair, ASA, Skywest, and the list goes on and on. Get on to something else bud, 70 seat pay does suck and RP, but it also sucks at all the regionals.

 

[Mesabi Miner]

A question for you guys... Mesaba bid on this flying as well. If we had received the offer to to the flying, would we then be taking all the heat? Not that Mesaba will ever do any flying outside of Big Brother NWA, but I was just wondering if every airline that wins a bid will be labelled "scabs" and "champions in the race to the bottom."

MM

 

[embraerjetpilot]

Chq and Mesa are nothing alike... Mesa sold out the rest of the industry in voting in their last contract. Chqs last contract included significant improvements in both wages and rule changes. Still one of the only regionals with no Junior Manning.

The mesa guys in florida are just like the go jet guys though... they turn their badges around so you wont know who they are and will hardly ever look you in the eye.

 

[Cloudroller]

EMB JET PILOT - i know mesa guys in FL, they dont turn their badges around. Why would they? They were displaced out of CLT i am pretty sure they would rather not be commuting.

By the way it was the Freedom A listers that sold out the Mesa pilots. Next time you see a Mesa / Freedom CA in MCO why dont you stop and ask them about the F8 A listers. they will probably give you a list