CHQ E190's

[Beechnut]

... because you've flown them both.


S.

 

[tie1on]

just remember, if you want bigger aircraft, go to the big boys. If you think you need to fly the e190, expect to be paid regional wages. I am not trying to flame you, but lowering the bar does'nt get you to the majors. Only lowereing the bar and lowering your career expectations.



I think the e190 will show up on a few major's lot, but only if the regional pilots make it too expensive on the crew side. ask for the moon to flyh it. Make sure you ask for pay rate equal to the majors,. SOmewhere around $150 per hour ca and $120 for fo

 

[PSAChiefPilots]

Hello,
If what you all are saying is true, it can't be good for us new hires at PSA. I am hoping that when the music stops after the merger news is formalize we will all have a place to sit.

Relax.

If you are online yet, come by my office, I'll explain it!
Good Luck,
PSACPSP

 

[RP170]

Why do some people assume CHQ pilots are dancing in the streets and ready to abbrogate their contract just to fly bigger planes because of this memo? Nobody wants to fly E-190s at RAH. I think its safe to say every pilot wants to see 90 seat and larger planes at mainline at mainline wages (many would say that about 70 seaters too). However, if those planes are going to be flown at the regional level, then RAH will fly them.

And if you *really* think that the pilot group of any airline would say "WE DON'T WANT GROWTH AND BIGGER AIRPLANES" and that'll keep them or another airline from flying them, I've got some beachfront property to sell ya.

Look at Jet Blue's 190 rates though. Those aren't mainline pay rates either. Those are regional rates. They are the same as CHQ's as far as captain rates go. I don't think you'll ever see these aircraft flown for mainline rates.

 

[Traumahawk]

yeah right. Apparently you dont actually SPEAK to your F/Os -- 99% of whome would step on their own mother to get an upgrade.

Chautauqua Airlines: Some call it Shiny-Jet-Syndrom - We call it, "Our Only Shot at Flying the Big Rigs"

You've got it alll figured out.

whome??

99% weren't even here when the last contract was signed, ignoramous.

 

[Jack Mahogoff]

Why do regional pilots want their companies to fly bigger jets? Thats career suicide i think. We will all be regional pilots forever if you dont stop thinking this way. I want to fly a bigger plane to someday but not for 5 or 10 bucks more an hour. Downward spiral and its all of our faults if we dont do something about it. My 2 cents worth.[/QUOTE

2 weeks ago (and many times before this) we had an MEC meeting in PHL and our (MDA/AAA) pilots and LEC reps tried to explain this too Mr. Pollock (AAA chairman) but all he could do was sit back in his chair dressed like he just came from the yatch club and swing his gavel around and looking totally uninterested in the whole deal.

I was almost going to jump from my chair and beat Mr.P over his mellon head with his gavel upon hearing some of the stuff that he said.

These guys aren't gonna learn until U contracts out the 737 and Airbus flying.

This is why i've been trying to say that the MDA and CHQ guys should get together and work something out so when U hits the remaining mainline guys with contracting out the 73's and bus's we can sit back and watch them scream bloody murder while we lay back in our chairs swing our gavels around like we could care less.

Well said Lear! I agree both pilot groups need to get together and arm ourselves for this upcoming battle.

What is the Company going to do for us to sweeten the deal? Bump pay rates (not likely), settle grievances, improve contract language, etc.

Although I believe the 190 should be a mainline aircraft flown by mainline crews at mainline rates, it is a fact that 190's are coming, like it or not. GECAS ordered 25 of them on 6-23-05. Wonder where they're going?

IMHO, BB's letter was simply posturing. This is a done deal as far as a/c orders go. The 25 orders for the E190 will enable Republic Airways Holdings to take all of the pilots from MDA in a J4J deal, which was discussed a few weeks ago when the asset sale/change of control issue first surfaced. BB said himself that in order to take all of the MDA guys, we would need at least 25 growth aircraft in addition to the current J4J agreement.

No matter what, we need to stick together on this and not waver. I believe the Company has something to gain but a lot more to lose on this and perhaps we can finally make a stand.

 

[LearLove]

Well said Lear! I agree both pilot groups need to get together and arm ourselves for this upcoming battle.

What is the Company going to do for us to sweeten the deal? Bump pay rates (not likely), settle grievances, improve contract language, etc.

Although I believe the 190 should be a mainline aircraft flown by mainline crews at mainline rates, it is a fact that 190's are coming, like it or not. GECAS ordered 25 of them on 6-23-05. Wonder where they're going?

IMHO, BB's letter was simply posturing. This is a done deal as far as a/c orders go. The 25 orders for the E190 will enable Republic Airways Holdings to take all of the pilots from MDA in a J4J deal, which was discussed a few weeks ago when the asset sale/change of control issue first surfaced. BB said himself that in order to take all of the MDA guys, we would need at least 25 growth aircraft in addition to the current J4J agreement.

No matter what, we need to stick together on this and not waver. I believe the Company has something to gain but a lot more to lose on this and perhaps we can finally make a stand.

I agree, I think it may just be some kind of ploy. And if it does happen then I rather work out some kind of integration instead of J4J because if the 190's do come there will never be any going back to mainline.

 

[Traumahawk]

Thats where I disagree... Integration. J4J was fair for the guys who are here now, and will be just as fair for the guys to come. If there is any integration, noone should be above the J4J guys that are already here.

 

[tie1on]

I appreciate the offer to come by and have it explained by a cp. I have better things to do with my time. I hope your career expectaions are what you expect. good luck.

e190 is not a regional A/c.

 

[surplus1]

I think its safe to say every pilot wants to see 90 seat and larger planes at mainline at mainline wages (many would say that about 70 seaters too). .

It sounds like maybe you have missed the fact that "mainline wages" for this equipment are currently lower than "regional wages".

It may be "safe" to say what you said but it isn't accurate. Why would I want to fly this or any other airplane at "mainline" for less money?

 

[surplus1]

This 190 deal will exceed that number, so it requires our approval to increase the number of J4J aircraft on property.

Why do you have a "need" to increase the number of J4J aircraft for any reason?
Haven't you figured out that the only thing that "program" does is play you all for suckers?

Why are you at all interested in giving up your seniority to pilots from another airline?

 

[Stick Man]

Why do you have a "need" to increase the number of J4J aircraft for any reason?
Haven't you figured out that the only thing that "program" does is play you all for suckers?

Why are you at all interested in giving up your seniority to pilots from another airline?

Wow, 25000 hrs and you're a CA at CMR?

Sad - truly sad.

 

[surplus1]

What is "sad" about it Stick Man?

 

[jobear]

Well said Lear! I agree both pilot groups need to get together and arm ourselves for this upcoming battle.

What is the Company going to do for us to sweeten the deal? Bump pay rates (not likely), settle grievances, improve contract language, etc.

Although I believe the 190 should be a mainline aircraft flown by mainline crews at mainline rates, it is a fact that 190's are coming, like it or not. GECAS ordered 25 of them on 6-23-05. Wonder where they're going?

IMHO, BB's letter was simply posturing. This is a done deal as far as a/c orders go. The 25 orders for the E190 will enable Republic Airways Holdings to take all of the pilots from MDA in a J4J deal, which was discussed a few weeks ago when the asset sale/change of control issue first surfaced. BB said himself that in order to take all of the MDA guys, we would need at least 25 growth aircraft in addition to the current J4J agreement.

No matter what, we need to stick together on this and not waver. I believe the Company has something to gain but a lot more to lose on this and perhaps we can finally make a stand.

I concur, he's hoping the SJS infects all who work here. I just want a steady job and a chance to move to a legacy carrier before my 45th birthday (which really ain't to far off). And a retirement without the need for work unless I'm bored.

Jobear
doing the yeomans job...

 

[Strikefinder]

Why do you have a "need" to increase the number of J4J aircraft for any reason?
Haven't you figured out that the only thing that "program" does is play you all for suckers?

Why are you at all interested in giving up your seniority to pilots from another airline?

Get out your history books, folks, since yet another misunderstanding is being dragged out...

About three years ago, Bedford came to the Chautauqua pilot group and asked us to ratify a J4J agreement that had been put or was going to be put in place at the wholly-owned airlines and the affliate carriers who we were competing against.

Our answer?

No.

Bedford, et al, go forward with a brainy (literally) idea to circumvent our contract and scope by creating an alter-ego entity known as "Republic Airlines" (much like Freedom is now a legitmately sanctioned part of Mesa, Republic is now legitimately sactioned by our pilot contract). At the time, Republic was supposed to be an airline made solely for the purpose of excercising an agreement with USAir to acquire J4J aircraft, and the pay rate was lower than our current, and old, contract. Sounds a lot like another popular and recent alter-ego issue, to be honest.

Of course, the problem was, Bedford had us by our, ahem, packages and the threat of an alter-ego being created pushed the Chautauqua pilot group to reexamine the J4J contract that had been updated, took the lesser of two evils, and signed a revised version in hopes of eliminating the alter-ego status of Republic. We were successful--there is no alter-ego carrier, since Republic is now bound to the CHQ pilot agreement. The bitter pill we swallowed was to surrender a part of our seniority provisions to the J4J pilots, who were given protections not afforded them at their relative seniority in certain situations. I'm not saying anything bad about the U pilots who have come here--I've flown with several, and they're all stand-up guys. But it is a slippery slope, and any of us who were here at CHQ at the time are very aware of the ramificaions of the agreement we signed the second time around. Quite honestly, we were outmaneuvered by management on this particular item, and had to give in to the J4J program in the hopes of protecting our jobs, and quite frankly the jobs at our competitors. If you don't like our pay rates, consider how much more difficult it would have been had you been competing with several dollars, per hour, less.

I can't speak for the pilot group on the whole, but there are a lot of vocal opponents to the idea of expanding the J4J program at CHQ. Again, this is not meant to be a slap in the face to the MDA pilots. I do not see any particular benefit for us to sign away more of the scope and seniority provisions of our current agreement solely in exchange for more aircraft. Nor do I have any particular inkling to go after any more flying (and certainly not concede any part of our agreement to acquire such flying) in larger aircraft, for both reasons of industry solidarity and a desire to motivate Mr. Bedford to elicit positive changes in blatant violations of our work rules and bargaining agreement.

What will happen? Who can say. To the best of my knowledge, USAir's pilots have scoped anything larger than a 170 to mainline, so I don't understand how Chautauqua, or anybody for that matter, can fly them for USAir. With the apparent lack of interest on the part of the MDA pilots to fly here, I don't know why the USAir pilots would agree--with or without a J4J provision--to allow us to fly them. Perhaps a court has eliminated such scope in order to make U more competitive, and I'm out of the loop. If not, however, I sincerely hope that ALPA will settle the issue where it ought to be settled--at mainline. If Chautauqua is offered such aircraft with the consent of the U pilots, then it has quite frankly gone too far already.

So, to answer your questions (see quote):
1.We don't
2.Though I wouldn't have put it so colorfully, yes
3.Who said we were interested in this at all?