CHQ E-170's, The Future?

[Be200pilot]

thats a nice rumor

 

[KingAirer]

Any mention of CHQ getting jet yields a rumor that Shuttle America is getting jets.
Riddle Me this...Do you really think Shuttle is going to pay to get a 170 program up and running, train pilots, bring them on property, all while RP has been doing the same thing. So now youve spent money twice, all to save AConnection.

 

[BoilerUP]

CHQ has been spending a ton of time and effort to set up a E170 training program in the last 3-4 weeks. It is my understanding CHQ could not use the materials developed by Republic, they needed their own training program. All so the 170s can be on the CHQ certificate for what, 1-2 months (hypothetically)? Will CHQ 170 crews who have already been flying the line have to go all the way through REP 170 indoc and systems/sim training once Republic gets their operating certificate and the planes get transferred? Nobody seems to know the answer to this question.

Lots of FAA officials on the sign-in sheet at Corporate every day, and lots of closed-door meetings. Its gonna be an interesting few months...

 

[FlyingDawg]

Here's some rumor from RAH HQ.

When AA took over the TWA contract for the STL flying, nothing was ever added about the APA scope limitation to the size of aircraft CHQ can fly. One must remember at the time US scope limited the size. US scope limits were eventually lifted and only DL codeshare limits the number of seats CHQ can fly at 70. The aircraft can even be certified at more than 70 seats but the seating config can only be 70.

Now Bedford is gearing up for a fight if AA is forced by APA to challenge it. Nothing in the AA contract limits the size of aircraft. A court would rule in CHQ favor because of this oversight.

Management has been asked why the need for Republic if CHQ gets the EMB170 on its certificate, if they are so sure they will win in court. Answer: Larger aircraft must go to Republic because of codeshare limitations.

Yes- Its gonna get interesting!

 

[surplus1]

I'd love to see RH take on the APA. It's time this sort of nonsense come to stop.

 

[Cleared Direct]

AGREEMENT
between
AMERICAN AIRLINES, INC.
and
THE AIR LINE PILOTS
in the service of
AMERICAN AIRLINES, INC.
as represented by the
ALLIED PILOTS ASSOCIATION
Effective: May 1, 2003


SECTION 1

RECOGNITION AND SCOPE

B. Definitions

4. Commuter Air Carrier

The term "Commuter Air Carrier" refers to any Air Carrier utilizing only (a)
aircraft that are certificated in the United States and Europe with a maximum
passenger capacity of 50 passenger seats or fewer and (b) aircraft that are not
certificated in any country with a maximum gross takeoff weight of more than
64,500 pounds. If an aircraft type operated by an Air Carrier otherwise meeting
the conditions in the preceding sentence is recertified with a maximum
passenger capacity of greater than 50 passenger seats, the Air Carrier
operating said aircraft shall remain a Commuter Air Carrier so long as it
operates said aircraft with no more than 50 passenger seats.

C. SCOPE

1. General.

All flying performed by or on behalf of the Company or an Affiliate shall be
performed by pilots on the American Airlines Pilots Seniority List in accordance
with the terms and conditions of this Agreement, except as expressly permitted
in provisions D. – K. below.

D. Scope Exception: Commuter Air Carriers

1. Commuter Air Carriers and Section 1 Limitations.

The Company or an Affiliate may create, acquire, maintain an equity position
in, enter into franchise type agreements with, and/or codeshare with a
Commuter Air Carrier, and flying by any such Commuter Air Carrier shall not
be subject to the limitations of Section 1.C. above, so long as any such
Commuter Air Carrier operates in accordance with the limitations set forth in
this Section 1.D.

2. American Eagle, Inc. and Executive Airlines, Inc.

American Eagle, Inc. and Executive Airlines, Inc. may operate, in the
aggregate, no more than 43 ATR 72 aircraft or other turbo prop aircraft
certificated in the United States and Europe for a maximum passenger capacity
of between 51 and 70 seats, without losing their status as Commuter Air
Carriers.

3. Purpose; Intent of the Parties.


a. Primary Purpose.

The primary purpose of a Commuter Air Carrier is either to provide
passenger and/or cargo revenue feed to Company flights and/or to enhance
the Company’s overall market presence.

b. Role of Commuter Air Carriers in Company’s Development.

The parties recognize that Commuter Air Carriers have played a role in the
development of the Company as the world’s premier airline. Additionally,
the Company and the Association acknowledge that the passenger feed
provided to the Company’s domestic and international system strengthens
the Company, thereby providing enhanced career opportunities to American
Airlines pilots.

c. Markets in Which the Company Cannot Earn an Adequate Return on
Invested Capital

The Company will operate American Airlines service in markets where such
service can earn an adequate return on invested capital. This provision will
not require the Company to operate a particular service, but instead, if the
Company could operate a service and earn an adequate return on invested
capital, the Company may not place or maintain the Company code on such
service by a Commuter Air Carrier. Notwithstanding this prohibition, if the
Company orders additional aircraft to fly such a route, the Company may
place or maintain its code on the route or frequency during the time
between order and delivery of the additional aircraft. Similarly, if the
Company is procuring an airport slot, gate and/or other route authority to fly
such a route, the Company may place or maintain its code on the route or
frequency during the time required to procure such a slot and/or authority.

d. Parties to Meet in the Event of Problems.

It is not the intent of either the Company or the Association to limit the
expansion of Commuter Air Carriers in developing new markets. If at any
time it is determined that these provisions are impeding the ability of
Commuter Air Carriers to fulfill their primary role in support of the
Company’s system, the parties agree to promptly meet and discuss
appropriate modifications to this Agreement.

---------------------------------------


LETTER JJ (6)

AmericanAirlines®

September 22, 2003
Captain John E. Darrah
President
Allied Pilots Association
14600 Trinity Boulevard, Suite 500
Fort Worth, TX 76155

Re: Trans States Airlines – ATR Exception (Section 1.D.2)

Dear John:

This letter modifies the agreement between the Allied Pilots Association (“APA”) and American Airlines, Inc. (“Company”) dated May 1, 2003 regarding Section 1 - Scope. Specifically, the parties agree to make an exception in which Trans States Airlines (“TSA”) may operate, in aggregate, no more than three (3) ATR 72 aircraft or other turbo prop aircraft certificated in the United States and Europe for a maximum passenger capacity of between 51 and 70 seats, in the American Connection Operation in STL without losing its status as a Commuter Air Carrier.

The parties also agree that TSA may replace and/or substitute these aircraft with like or similar aircraft.

Sincerely,
/signed/
Mark L. Burdette
Director - Employee Relations
Agreed:
/signed/
John E. Darrah
President
Allied Pilots Association

 

[surplus1]

And your point is? Looks like the only part of that which "might" be relevant is Section 1.B.4.(a). Given that CHQ is not operating any aircraft with more than 50-seats as a "franchise" for American, this language is vague. The APA's interpretation is ambiguous.

What is the exact language that you see as prhibiting CHQ from flying the E-170 for United? What language, if any, would prevent Republic from flying the E-170 for United?

I think the APA is "stretching" well beyond its reach.

 

[KingAirer]

Id be curious to see what the AMR-CHQ contract looks like. Im not a contract lawyer, but looks like AMR could be sued either way.