chemtrails

[414Flyer]

Are these the kind of trails you see sometimes Denver?

 

[CDNJetPilot]

trails

Denver130,

I went through your website. None of those photos look strange. None. I can send you a ton of photos that look identical of aircraft crossing over my home city (summer or winter). If these are really chemtrails, then every aircraft in the world is spraying us. Korean Airlines, China Air, Cathay Pacific, Lufthansa, Air Canada etc. Of course this is impossible so let's move on.....

Second, lapse rates aren't set in stone. They can change so it's impossible to get an exact temperature using your simple math. The whole rant about air temps in Houston at FL330 is just crazy. Next time, go look at an aviation weather map and get the REAL temp instead of trying to calculate it. You may be surprised to see it's -38C at FL310 on a hot day in Houston.

In Canada, on a hot summer day (100f+, 33C+) it's common to see contrails from aircraft either crossing the nation or going to/from Europe/Asia/Alaska/USA. I watch them on my flight tracking software and even look at them with binoculars etc. Yeah, I'm a nerd. I can identify almost any airplane by it's contrail. None of your pics look different than the norm. Even the 'strange' patterns. That's navigation coming into play and there is probably a busy airway nearby.

Please post some pics of low alt trails. Then we can talk.

 

[CDNJetPilot]

blank post.. sorry...

 

[skyslug]

I suppose the breath that comes out of our mouth on a cold day and "fogs" is a form of human chemical spraying? (and yes, in some folks it actually is!)

I also suppose the steam rising from a boiling pot of water is the cooks way of introducing airborne chemicals into the household?

These are basically the same priniciples behind a contrail.

just a thought...

 

[dash8driver]

Denver,

ok..since you want to by scientific about it why dont you go get a hold of a spectrometer and take pictures of your "chemtrails" with it. then, you can analyse the chemical make up of the chemtrails. i caution you tho, you better have a conspiracy theory or excuse as to why the results show up as H2O.

also what you can do is next time you see these chemtrails at 12,000'. go buy some plane tickets and go flying so you can see them from above or closer as you climb through them.

to address your worry about too many aircraft being in the same area at the same time. consider that you are near a major international airport, many airlines are operating many flights per day in and out of that airport, thats how they make money. also there are planes that are passing over head to other destinations.

how they get to and from this airport and over it to other airports? they use whats called airways. they are like roadways in the sky, paths to follow going from one navigation beacon to another. here is a picture of a navigation chart with those airways decpicted. you'll see that the airways converge on the navigation beacon. i'm sure that even you can see that contrail producing aircraft, following the various routes in this picture would produce the scary x patters and wheel patterns, etc.

http://www.navfltsm.addr.com/ctr-agnez-ifr.htm

its no conpiracy... they are just intersections in the sky. it would be like saying the drivers of cars are out to get you just because you keep seeing 6-8 cars at the intersection at the same time. they are just navigating from point a to point b.

also check out this link.. it may help you figure it out:

http://www.gaservingamerica.org/how_work/work_airways.htm

 

[flywithastick]

I suppose the breath that comes out of our mouth on a cold day and "fogs" is a form of human chemical spraying? (and yes, in some folks it actually is!)

I also suppose the steam rising from a boiling pot of water is the cooks way of introducing airborne chemicals into the household?

Could be! Water is a "chemical". maybe both side have a point here!!

 

[414Flyer]

No, they dont include water in their conspiracy. To them its all big trails of "Barium" up in the sky. Not that they have any evidence of it, but its been their mantra for a long time.

 

[CDNJetPilot]

Picture

Here is a picture. It shows:

1. Contrails over Houston
2. It's summer time with thunderstorms.
3. Strange contrail shapes which are holding patterns.

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/192118/L/

 

[eddie]

Denver -

Here is a link to an explaination of the "chem orb". It is not produced by anything but sunlight (or moonlight) and ice crystals in the upper atmosphere.

http://www.sundog.clara.co.uk/halo/halosim.htm

(if you go to "observing halos" on the left side menu, you will see photos very much like yours)

 

[JCJ]

Gee and i always thought that Barium was that stuff we squirted up people's butt to help with an x-ray of their rectum

 

[Typhoon1244]

Re: chemtrails - new math

What altitude are clouds normally at? The text box answer is betwteen 10K and 15K.

Have you ever heard of "fog?" Go look up "fog" in any meteorology book, then come back and tell us what altitudes clouds form at.

 

[VaB]

x-ray of their rectum

Rectum? Damm near killed 'em.

 

[Typhoon1244]

NASA's WB-57 spraying "stuff" at the higher altitudes for some research project, and lower being the Beech D-18 "Mosquito Bomber" spraying insectacide (sp?), operated by the county.

...I guess both of these could be considered chem spraying by the government.

Yeah, and they were real secret, weren't they.

What makes you think Denver130 can tell the difference between an airplane at 12,000 and one at 32,000? Even I've been fooled before: when I caught sight of Columbia during her final plunge, I mistook her for a large jet leaving a contrail at FL410...due to the combination of speed and altitude.

 

[414Flyer]

Re: chemtrails - new math

What altitude are clouds normally at? The text box answer is betwteen 10K and 15K. (Houston is not known for cirrus clouds)

Where the hell did you come up with that? If that was true, there would not be instrument approaches, or instrument landing systems.

There is no text book answer for altitudes they can form. That is evidence you have no clue what you are talking about.

 

[TXCAP4228]

For those of you who are scientifically minded, think about this one. If its 90 degrees out in Houston, what is the temperature at 12,000ft (since a lot of clouds reside between 10K and 15K feet, we will use that for our point of comparison).

The average temperature decrease is 2.5 degrees per 1,000ft. So what is the temperature at 12,000ft?

2.5 times 12 = 30
90 – 30 = 60 (temperature at 12K)

If the temperature at 12K is 60, would jet contrails normally form? No.

Every piece of literature I’ve read and I’ve pulled 100 documents off the web including NASA and NOAA documents and in every case they said you need a temperature of -40F or colder. Also in order to have lingering jet contrails you need temperatures as low as -70F. Isn’t it strange then to see jet contrails woven through the clouds in warm temperatures when scientific literature says the opposites?

I can't believe I am actually going to post this, but ok.

The SLR (standard lapse rate) is 2 degrees CELCIUS per thousand feet. Dude, don't be a dope.

Denver130, you know about as much about meterology and aerodynamics as you know about quantum physics. When I decided to become a pilot I read my @ss off for a year so I would learn and understand just weather. Pick up a book about weather and high altitude meterology and read it. Don't be lazy and just believe what you see in some chemtrail forum. For crying out loud.

With this post you have demonstarted you really don't even have a good grasp of basic lapse rates.

In any case, I have never seen a contrail at 12,000 feet, but that doesn't mean that in exceptionally cold weather it couldn't happen.

=======

Airgator:

its not gummed up ejectors that block the flow at altitude. The last time it happened to me the mechanic said the inverted discombobulater had gotten stuck and as a result the flow become too saturated. The sh!t was freezing in the line before it ever got sprayed.

Anyway, he tightened up the uplink fitting and it has worked fine ever since. You might try that.

Also, one question. Anybody seen the new X27 compound the feds have out now? Cool stuff. They say it will even work when sprayed out of piston engines.

The feds brought a barrel out to a local FBO a few weeks ago and it burned a dudes hand off. Pretty cool.

 

[Denver130]

conversion in CELCIUS

By the way you can do the same math in celcius.
90F is 32C

Lets use 2C temperature difference per 1,000ft and 12,000ft height as a point of comparison.

2 times 12 = 24

32 - 24 = 8C

Can jet contrails form at 8C at 12,000ft? No

By the way, when you look at the three pictures at

http://www.geocities.com/houstonchemtrails/dec1102.html

what do you see? Heavy low altitude cloud cover and a jet contrail or one of those notorious chemtrails? You decide.

By the way look at the bottom picture and notice how close to the roof of the apartment building it is. Wouldn't that look suspicious to you?

 

[414Flyer]

Nothing looks askew about those pictures.

I see you still continue on about 12,000 ft trails, but yet you still avoid the question about how you arrived at such a number for altitude.

 

[Kingairrick]

Denver reminds me of the conversation I had the other night with my 4 year old...

"no honey, it just looks like the moon is following the car. It is so far away it appears to be stationary."
"Who is it writing to?."
"Who's what writing to?"
"The moon, You said it was stationary."
"Not that kind of stationary, honey. Stationary means it's not moving."
"But it looks like it's moving"
"It actually is moving, just not following the car."
"But it just turned when we turned, look..."
"Honey, those trees that went between us and the moon went past the car, not the moon. The moon is really far away."
"But it IS following us! Look, it just turned again!"
"IT didn't turn Honey, the car did."
"Yeah, but the moon's still right there..."
"LISTEN, the moon is NOT following the car!"
"I swear it is Daddy, it just turned AGAIN! Oh, now it's behind that sign."
"Can you read that sign Honey?"
"Yes it says 'A.B.C. Lik or'."
"Good Honey, Daddy'll be back in a minute. I need something from inside..."

 

[skyslug]

By the way look at the bottom picture and notice how close to the roof of the apartment building it is. Wouldn't that look suspicious to you?

I was in DFW when the shuttle disintigrated in re-entry. The contrail it left looked like it was flying between 20-40,000 feet - a normal altitude for airline traffic. It was indeed not...it was many times higher. It just LOOKED lower.

looks can be deceiving Denver, and I think you've been deceived!

 

[Typhoon1244]

Re: conversion in CELCIUS

Can jet contrails form at 8C at 12,000ft?

If there's enough moisture in the air, yes. They'll be short-lived, but they'll be there.

Condensation trails will form anywhere if there is enough moisture in the atmosphere and if the ambient air temperature is cold enough. They can even form below 1,000 feet under certain conditions (as you can see here and here).

By the way, when you look at the three pictures at http://www.geocities.com/houstonchemtrails/dec1102.html what do you see? Heavy low altitude cloud cover and a jet contrail or one of those notorious chemtrails? You decide.

I see a contrail. Only an ignorant paranoiac would see a "chemtrail."

By the way look at the bottom picture and notice how close to the roof of the apartment building it is. Wouldn't that look suspicious to you?

Oh yeah! That "chemtrail" is practically touching the roof, isn't it!

Guys and gals, you need to remember Denver130's definition of a contrail: a "pencil-thin" line of ice particles generated by aircraft flying over 38,000 feet that dissipates after thirty seconds. So any contrail he sees that isn't "pencil-thin" must be down around 8 or 10 thousand feet. Denver, you're misjudging the height of the trails you're seeing by, I'm guessing, about 15,000 feet.

One more thing, about lapse rates. Denver, they're not set in stone. The atmosphere does not always cool at a uniform 2 deg. C per thousand feet. That's the standard lapse rate.

The standard sea level temperature is 59 deg. F (15 deg. C). Does that mean there's something radically wrong in Houston because it's usually a lot hotter than 59 degrees there? That's the kind of reasoning you're handing us!