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chemtrails
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Aerosmith
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Guys, you have got to check out the bulletin board of these nut cases. It made my day.
Go to the Aerosol Operation Crimes & Cover Up Documented under the MESSAGE BOARD and check out the thread called "the harrasment continues"
http://www.carnicom.com/contrails.htm
Go to the Aerosol Operation Crimes & Cover Up Documented under the MESSAGE BOARD and check out the thread called "the harrasment continues"
http://www.carnicom.com/contrails.htm
chemtrails - new math
Some folks have said my math was incorrect. I should be using the 3.5F figure instead of the 2.5 figure, so lets recalculate jet contrails at 12,000ft at 90 degrees Houston temperature.
3.5 times 12 = 42
90 - 42 = 48
Would jet contrails normally form at 48F? No
Lets try 30,000ft at 90 degrees.
3.5 times 30 = 105
90 -105 = -15
Would normal jet contrails form at -15F? No
Lets try 37,000ft at 90.
3.5 times 37 = 129.5
90 - 129.5 = -39.5F
Would normal jet contrails form at -39.5F? I think they would even though I'm a half a degree off from the text book standard of -40.
What altitude are clouds normally at? The text box answer is betwteen 10K and 15K. (Houston is not known for cirrus clouds)
Hense, heres the question that all of us "little people" are asking.
Is it normal to see X's, grids, cartwheels, and lines above our houses in Houston? Is it normal to watch 6 to 8 jets over our jobs leaving trails woven though the clouds? Is it normal to see them linger for hours? The answer is NO, if you look at it scientifically using known scientific research.
Is there any other explaination to the puzzle? Yes ... chemtrails
Even your politicians in Washington have said this. Why wont you believe them?
Some folks have said my math was incorrect. I should be using the 3.5F figure instead of the 2.5 figure, so lets recalculate jet contrails at 12,000ft at 90 degrees Houston temperature.
3.5 times 12 = 42
90 - 42 = 48
Would jet contrails normally form at 48F? No
Lets try 30,000ft at 90 degrees.
3.5 times 30 = 105
90 -105 = -15
Would normal jet contrails form at -15F? No
Lets try 37,000ft at 90.
3.5 times 37 = 129.5
90 - 129.5 = -39.5F
Would normal jet contrails form at -39.5F? I think they would even though I'm a half a degree off from the text book standard of -40.
What altitude are clouds normally at? The text box answer is betwteen 10K and 15K. (Houston is not known for cirrus clouds)
Hense, heres the question that all of us "little people" are asking.
Is it normal to see X's, grids, cartwheels, and lines above our houses in Houston? Is it normal to watch 6 to 8 jets over our jobs leaving trails woven though the clouds? Is it normal to see them linger for hours? The answer is NO, if you look at it scientifically using known scientific research.
Is there any other explaination to the puzzle? Yes ... chemtrails
Even your politicians in Washington have said this. Why wont you believe them?
chemtrail sites?
I believe that if you truly want to unlock the mystery of this low altitude phenomenon, we should rely on science primarily and so I have purposely shyed away from quoting anything other than scientific research.
A secondary component that we should consider is politics.
Since politicians have admitted to such a program, we should not discount that evidence.
A third component that we should consider is US military history (which is quite public and common knowledge) of testing chemical and biological agents on population centers. We should not discount that evidence.
We live in a different world today. They say that fact is stranger than fiction.
If you have another spare moment. Take another look at the photos at www.geocities.com/houstonchemtrails
Ask youself again, are these normal?
I believe that if you truly want to unlock the mystery of this low altitude phenomenon, we should rely on science primarily and so I have purposely shyed away from quoting anything other than scientific research.
A secondary component that we should consider is politics.
Since politicians have admitted to such a program, we should not discount that evidence.
A third component that we should consider is US military history (which is quite public and common knowledge) of testing chemical and biological agents on population centers. We should not discount that evidence.
We live in a different world today. They say that fact is stranger than fiction.
If you have another spare moment. Take another look at the photos at www.geocities.com/houstonchemtrails
Ask youself again, are these normal?
flywithastick
Member is: ready
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- 684
I can't resist. Here's some more fuel for the fire.
Been flying in Texas and specifically around Houston for the last 15+ yrs. Never seen a trail anywhere near 10, 12, 14 thousand. have seen them at 30-35+ thou during certain times of the year. Also have seen *chemical* trails at 60+ thou. and at ~50agl.
NASA's WB-57 spraying "stuff" at the higher altitudes for some research project, and lower being the Beech D-18 "Mosquito Bomber" spraying insectacide (sp?), operated by the county.
Hope this isn't too disappointing, Typhoon!
But I guess both of these could be considered chem spraying by the government.
Been flying in Texas and specifically around Houston for the last 15+ yrs. Never seen a trail anywhere near 10, 12, 14 thousand. have seen them at 30-35+ thou during certain times of the year. Also have seen *chemical* trails at 60+ thou. and at ~50agl.
NASA's WB-57 spraying "stuff" at the higher altitudes for some research project, and lower being the Beech D-18 "Mosquito Bomber" spraying insectacide (sp?), operated by the county.
Hope this isn't too disappointing, Typhoon!
But I guess both of these could be considered chem spraying by the government.
414Flyer
Down with Chemtrails!
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- 4,948
Re: chemtrails - new math
Are you not reading what anyone, me included, has typed.
A. How did you come up with 12,000 ft ?
B. Why has no one who flies, seen these mysterious trails?
C. why is it the only ones who have such ideas, are those who spend no time in the air, no nothing about aviation, and little about meteorology.
D. What have you done to educate yourself about aviation, and how aircraft navigate?
You have offered no proof of anything down low.
Yes, you have traffic coming into houston from every direction, and planes are flying over Houston while going to other locations.
What is it supposed to look like then?
Should the planes be avoiding clouds so it makes you feel better?
Its called Houston "Intercontinental"..Of course it will get busy with lots of aircraft. Would you feel secure if it was only 1 plane in the sky at a time?
Yes there is an answer : paranoia and ignorance.
Who is your politician? Kucinich? He already backed off of that...When has he been saying it?
Denver130 said:
Are you not reading what anyone, me included, has typed.
A. How did you come up with 12,000 ft ?
B. Why has no one who flies, seen these mysterious trails?
C. why is it the only ones who have such ideas, are those who spend no time in the air, no nothing about aviation, and little about meteorology.
D. What have you done to educate yourself about aviation, and how aircraft navigate?
You have offered no proof of anything down low.
Yes, you have traffic coming into houston from every direction, and planes are flying over Houston while going to other locations.
What is it supposed to look like then?
Should the planes be avoiding clouds so it makes you feel better?
Its called Houston "Intercontinental"..Of course it will get busy with lots of aircraft. Would you feel secure if it was only 1 plane in the sky at a time?
Yes there is an answer : paranoia and ignorance.
Who is your politician? Kucinich? He already backed off of that...When has he been saying it?
Last edited:
KeroseneSnorter
Robust Member
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- Oct 26, 2003
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- 1,530
I read that thread in the chemtrails message board about the "continuing harrasment." Holy crapola was it frightening!
The person being "harrassed" has posted the liscence plate numbers of every car that has "sprayed" them over the last 3 years. I'm guessing that there are over a couple thousand plate numbers in the post. Apparently if your car is smoking you are evil and intentionally harming this persons family. PRAISE THE LORD JESUS!!! oh, did I mention the poster praises Jesus about 5-10 times each post.
In another post they talk about "chemtrail fibers." Apparently they have never noticed some species of sipders travel by emmitting a long thread and using it to float away. I know this because i've had those little fuggers land on me before.
Denver, in the website you linked to there is absolutley NOTHING unusual about those pictures. NOTHING! The one contrail that appears to be below a cloud layer may be just that. However the cloud layer in that picture is typical of a HIGH altitude layer that I have seen MANY times before. Note how thin the above lying layer is. Also I have NEVER EVER EVER seen a contrail around 12,000 feet. NEVER.
Skeezer
The person being "harrassed" has posted the liscence plate numbers of every car that has "sprayed" them over the last 3 years. I'm guessing that there are over a couple thousand plate numbers in the post. Apparently if your car is smoking you are evil and intentionally harming this persons family. PRAISE THE LORD JESUS!!! oh, did I mention the poster praises Jesus about 5-10 times each post.
In another post they talk about "chemtrail fibers." Apparently they have never noticed some species of sipders travel by emmitting a long thread and using it to float away. I know this because i've had those little fuggers land on me before.
Denver, in the website you linked to there is absolutley NOTHING unusual about those pictures. NOTHING! The one contrail that appears to be below a cloud layer may be just that. However the cloud layer in that picture is typical of a HIGH altitude layer that I have seen MANY times before. Note how thin the above lying layer is. Also I have NEVER EVER EVER seen a contrail around 12,000 feet. NEVER.
Skeezer
CDNJetPilot
Active member
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- Jul 8, 2002
- Posts
- 25
trails
Denver130,
I went through your website. None of those photos look strange. None. I can send you a ton of photos that look identical of aircraft crossing over my home city (summer or winter). If these are really chemtrails, then every aircraft in the world is spraying us. Korean Airlines, China Air, Cathay Pacific, Lufthansa, Air Canada etc. Of course this is impossible so let's move on.....
Second, lapse rates aren't set in stone. They can change so it's impossible to get an exact temperature using your simple math. The whole rant about air temps in Houston at FL330 is just crazy. Next time, go look at an aviation weather map and get the REAL temp instead of trying to calculate it. You may be surprised to see it's -38C at FL310 on a hot day in Houston.
In Canada, on a hot summer day (100f+, 33C+) it's common to see contrails from aircraft either crossing the nation or going to/from Europe/Asia/Alaska/USA. I watch them on my flight tracking software and even look at them with binoculars etc. Yeah, I'm a nerd. I can identify almost any airplane by it's contrail. None of your pics look different than the norm. Even the 'strange' patterns. That's navigation coming into play and there is probably a busy airway nearby.
Please post some pics of low alt trails. Then we can talk.
Denver130,
I went through your website. None of those photos look strange. None. I can send you a ton of photos that look identical of aircraft crossing over my home city (summer or winter). If these are really chemtrails, then every aircraft in the world is spraying us. Korean Airlines, China Air, Cathay Pacific, Lufthansa, Air Canada etc. Of course this is impossible so let's move on.....
Second, lapse rates aren't set in stone. They can change so it's impossible to get an exact temperature using your simple math. The whole rant about air temps in Houston at FL330 is just crazy. Next time, go look at an aviation weather map and get the REAL temp instead of trying to calculate it. You may be surprised to see it's -38C at FL310 on a hot day in Houston.
In Canada, on a hot summer day (100f+, 33C+) it's common to see contrails from aircraft either crossing the nation or going to/from Europe/Asia/Alaska/USA. I watch them on my flight tracking software and even look at them with binoculars etc. Yeah, I'm a nerd. I can identify almost any airplane by it's contrail. None of your pics look different than the norm. Even the 'strange' patterns. That's navigation coming into play and there is probably a busy airway nearby.
Please post some pics of low alt trails. Then we can talk.
CDNJetPilot
Active member
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skyslug
Oops!
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I suppose the breath that comes out of our mouth on a cold day and "fogs" is a form of human chemical spraying? (and yes, in some folks it actually is!)
I also suppose the steam rising from a boiling pot of water is the cooks way of introducing airborne chemicals into the household?
These are basically the same priniciples behind a contrail.
just a thought...
I also suppose the steam rising from a boiling pot of water is the cooks way of introducing airborne chemicals into the household?
These are basically the same priniciples behind a contrail.
just a thought...
dash8driver
Foamy Specialist
- Joined
- Mar 25, 2002
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- 1,217
Denver,
ok..since you want to by scientific about it why dont you go get a hold of a spectrometer and take pictures of your "chemtrails" with it. then, you can analyse the chemical make up of the chemtrails. i caution you tho, you better have a conspiracy theory or excuse as to why the results show up as H2O.
also what you can do is next time you see these chemtrails at 12,000'. go buy some plane tickets and go flying so you can see them from above or closer as you climb through them.
to address your worry about too many aircraft being in the same area at the same time. consider that you are near a major international airport, many airlines are operating many flights per day in and out of that airport, thats how they make money. also there are planes that are passing over head to other destinations.
how they get to and from this airport and over it to other airports? they use whats called airways. they are like roadways in the sky, paths to follow going from one navigation beacon to another. here is a picture of a navigation chart with those airways decpicted. you'll see that the airways converge on the navigation beacon. i'm sure that even you can see that contrail producing aircraft, following the various routes in this picture would produce the scary x patters and wheel patterns, etc.
http://www.navfltsm.addr.com/ctr-agnez-ifr.htm
its no conpiracy... they are just intersections in the sky. it would be like saying the drivers of cars are out to get you just because you keep seeing 6-8 cars at the intersection at the same time. they are just navigating from point a to point b.
also check out this link.. it may help you figure it out:
http://www.gaservingamerica.org/how_work/work_airways.htm
ok..since you want to by scientific about it why dont you go get a hold of a spectrometer and take pictures of your "chemtrails" with it. then, you can analyse the chemical make up of the chemtrails. i caution you tho, you better have a conspiracy theory or excuse as to why the results show up as H2O.
also what you can do is next time you see these chemtrails at 12,000'. go buy some plane tickets and go flying so you can see them from above or closer as you climb through them.
to address your worry about too many aircraft being in the same area at the same time. consider that you are near a major international airport, many airlines are operating many flights per day in and out of that airport, thats how they make money. also there are planes that are passing over head to other destinations.
how they get to and from this airport and over it to other airports? they use whats called airways. they are like roadways in the sky, paths to follow going from one navigation beacon to another. here is a picture of a navigation chart with those airways decpicted. you'll see that the airways converge on the navigation beacon. i'm sure that even you can see that contrail producing aircraft, following the various routes in this picture would produce the scary x patters and wheel patterns, etc.
http://www.navfltsm.addr.com/ctr-agnez-ifr.htm
its no conpiracy... they are just intersections in the sky. it would be like saying the drivers of cars are out to get you just because you keep seeing 6-8 cars at the intersection at the same time. they are just navigating from point a to point b.
also check out this link.. it may help you figure it out:
http://www.gaservingamerica.org/how_work/work_airways.htm
flywithastick
Member is: ready
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CDNJetPilot
Active member
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- Posts
- 25
Picture
Here is a picture. It shows:
1. Contrails over Houston
2. It's summer time with thunderstorms.
3. Strange contrail shapes which are holding patterns.
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/192118/L/
Here is a picture. It shows:
1. Contrails over Houston
2. It's summer time with thunderstorms.
3. Strange contrail shapes which are holding patterns.
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/192118/L/
Denver -
Here is a link to an explaination of the "chem orb". It is not produced by anything but sunlight (or moonlight) and ice crystals in the upper atmosphere.
http://www.sundog.clara.co.uk/halo/halosim.htm
(if you go to "observing halos" on the left side menu, you will see photos very much like yours)
Here is a link to an explaination of the "chem orb". It is not produced by anything but sunlight (or moonlight) and ice crystals in the upper atmosphere.
http://www.sundog.clara.co.uk/halo/halosim.htm
(if you go to "observing halos" on the left side menu, you will see photos very much like yours)
Last edited:
Typhoon1244
Member in Good Standing
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Typhoon1244
Member in Good Standing
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Yeah, and they were real secret, weren't they.flywithastick said:
What makes you think Denver130 can tell the difference between an airplane at 12,000 and one at 32,000? Even I've been fooled before: when I caught sight of Columbia during her final plunge, I mistook her for a large jet leaving a contrail at FL410...due to the combination of speed and altitude.
414Flyer
Down with Chemtrails!
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- Posts
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Re: chemtrails - new math
Where the hell did you come up with that? If that was true, there would not be instrument approaches, or instrument landing systems.
There is no text book answer for altitudes they can form. That is evidence you have no clue what you are talking about.
Denver130 said:
Where the hell did you come up with that? If that was true, there would not be instrument approaches, or instrument landing systems.
There is no text book answer for altitudes they can form. That is evidence you have no clue what you are talking about.
TXCAP4228
Well-known member
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- 426
Denver130 said:
I can't believe I am actually going to post this, but ok.
The SLR (standard lapse rate) is 2 degrees CELCIUS per thousand feet. Dude, don't be a dope.
Denver130, you know about as much about meterology and aerodynamics as you know about quantum physics. When I decided to become a pilot I read my @ss off for a year so I would learn and understand just weather. Pick up a book about weather and high altitude meterology and read it. Don't be lazy and just believe what you see in some chemtrail forum. For crying out loud.
With this post you have demonstarted you really don't even have a good grasp of basic lapse rates.
In any case, I have never seen a contrail at 12,000 feet, but that doesn't mean that in exceptionally cold weather it couldn't happen.
=======
Airgator:
its not gummed up ejectors that block the flow at altitude. The last time it happened to me the mechanic said the inverted discombobulater had gotten stuck and as a result the flow become too saturated. The sh!t was freezing in the line before it ever got sprayed.
Anyway, he tightened up the uplink fitting and it has worked fine ever since. You might try that.
Also, one question. Anybody seen the new X27 compound the feds have out now? Cool stuff. They say it will even work when sprayed out of piston engines.
The feds brought a barrel out to a local FBO a few weeks ago and it burned a dudes hand off. Pretty cool.
conversion in CELCIUS
By the way you can do the same math in celcius.
90F is 32C
Lets use 2C temperature difference per 1,000ft and 12,000ft height as a point of comparison.
2 times 12 = 24
32 - 24 = 8C
Can jet contrails form at 8C at 12,000ft? No
By the way, when you look at the three pictures at
http://www.geocities.com/houstonchemtrails/dec1102.html
what do you see? Heavy low altitude cloud cover and a jet contrail or one of those notorious chemtrails? You decide.
By the way look at the bottom picture and notice how close to the roof of the apartment building it is. Wouldn't that look suspicious to you?
By the way you can do the same math in celcius.
90F is 32C
Lets use 2C temperature difference per 1,000ft and 12,000ft height as a point of comparison.
2 times 12 = 24
32 - 24 = 8C
Can jet contrails form at 8C at 12,000ft? No
By the way, when you look at the three pictures at
http://www.geocities.com/houstonchemtrails/dec1102.html
what do you see? Heavy low altitude cloud cover and a jet contrail or one of those notorious chemtrails? You decide.
By the way look at the bottom picture and notice how close to the roof of the apartment building it is. Wouldn't that look suspicious to you?
Kingairrick
Rare user
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- Aug 22, 2002
- Posts
- 886
Denver reminds me of the conversation I had the other night with my 4 year old...
"no honey, it just looks like the moon is following the car. It is so far away it appears to be stationary."
"Who is it writing to?."
"Who's what writing to?"
"The moon, You said it was stationary."
"Not that kind of stationary, honey. Stationary means it's not moving."
"But it looks like it's moving"
"It actually is moving, just not following the car."
"But it just turned when we turned, look..."
"Honey, those trees that went between us and the moon went past the car, not the moon. The moon is really far away."
"But it IS following us! Look, it just turned again!"
"IT didn't turn Honey, the car did."
"Yeah, but the moon's still right there..."
"LISTEN, the moon is NOT following the car!"
"I swear it is Daddy, it just turned AGAIN! Oh, now it's behind that sign."
"Can you read that sign Honey?"
"Yes it says 'A.B.C. Lik or'."
"Good Honey, Daddy'll be back in a minute. I need something from inside..."
"no honey, it just looks like the moon is following the car. It is so far away it appears to be stationary."
"Who is it writing to?."
"Who's what writing to?"
"The moon, You said it was stationary."
"Not that kind of stationary, honey. Stationary means it's not moving."
"But it looks like it's moving"
"It actually is moving, just not following the car."
"But it just turned when we turned, look..."
"Honey, those trees that went between us and the moon went past the car, not the moon. The moon is really far away."
"But it IS following us! Look, it just turned again!"
"IT didn't turn Honey, the car did."
"Yeah, but the moon's still right there..."
"LISTEN, the moon is NOT following the car!"
"I swear it is Daddy, it just turned AGAIN! Oh, now it's behind that sign."
"Can you read that sign Honey?"
"Yes it says 'A.B.C. Lik or'."
"Good Honey, Daddy'll be back in a minute. I need something from inside..."
skyslug
Oops!
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- Nov 26, 2001
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I was in DFW when the shuttle disintigrated in re-entry. The contrail it left looked like it was flying between 20-40,000 feet - a normal altitude for airline traffic. It was indeed not...it was many times higher. It just LOOKED lower.
looks can be deceiving Denver, and I think you've been deceived!
Typhoon1244
Member in Good Standing
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- Jul 29, 2002
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- 3,078
Re: conversion in CELCIUS
Condensation trails will form anywhere if there is enough moisture in the atmosphere and if the ambient air temperature is cold enough. They can even form below 1,000 feet under certain conditions (as you can see here and here).
Guys and gals, you need to remember Denver130's definition of a contrail: a "pencil-thin" line of ice particles generated by aircraft flying over 38,000 feet that dissipates after thirty seconds. So any contrail he sees that isn't "pencil-thin" must be down around 8 or 10 thousand feet. Denver, you're misjudging the height of the trails you're seeing by, I'm guessing, about 15,000 feet.
One more thing, about lapse rates. Denver, they're not set in stone. The atmosphere does not always cool at a uniform 2 deg. C per thousand feet. That's the standard lapse rate.
The standard sea level temperature is 59 deg. F (15 deg. C). Does that mean there's something radically wrong in Houston because it's usually a lot hotter than 59 degrees there? That's the kind of reasoning you're handing us!
If there's enough moisture in the air, yes. They'll be short-lived, but they'll be there.Denver130 said:
Condensation trails will form anywhere if there is enough moisture in the atmosphere and if the ambient air temperature is cold enough. They can even form below 1,000 feet under certain conditions (as you can see here and here).
I see a contrail. Only an ignorant paranoiac would see a "chemtrail."
Oh yeah! That "chemtrail" is practically touching the roof, isn't it!
Guys and gals, you need to remember Denver130's definition of a contrail: a "pencil-thin" line of ice particles generated by aircraft flying over 38,000 feet that dissipates after thirty seconds. So any contrail he sees that isn't "pencil-thin" must be down around 8 or 10 thousand feet. Denver, you're misjudging the height of the trails you're seeing by, I'm guessing, about 15,000 feet.
One more thing, about lapse rates. Denver, they're not set in stone. The atmosphere does not always cool at a uniform 2 deg. C per thousand feet. That's the standard lapse rate.
The standard sea level temperature is 59 deg. F (15 deg. C). Does that mean there's something radically wrong in Houston because it's usually a lot hotter than 59 degrees there? That's the kind of reasoning you're handing us!
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