Chemtrails: holiday update

[Typhoon1244]

Re: Re: Chemtrails Under Clouds

Don't know what the hell your problem is, pal. Did you even bother to read my post? Show me where I made an illogical statement.

Okay...

If it does turn out to be some sort of spraying sponsored by the military, I wouldn't be too surprised. The sheer volume of information the public doesn't know (or want to know) regarding certain elements of the gov't is beyond measure: JFK, TWA 800, UFOs, etc.

Anyway, in order for this chemtrail business to emerge from the fringes of conspiracy theories, precise, verifiable evidence must be collected and made public.

Your remarks make it sound like Denver130 is right, but doesn't have enough evidence.

Trust me, I've been dealing with this wacko for a while know. At one point, I thought I had him almost convinced that there's no conspiracy here.

He's a paranoid schizophrenic with internet access...a very scary prospect.

 

[secks]

Re: Most beautiful cons

I've concluded this is like a religion for Denver. He will not let facts confuse his faith. Everybody is just wasting their time trying to explain reality to him. We could be having this same discussion about UFOs and swampgas...

That reminds me... My mother-in-law just can't believe that I've been a pilot for 22 years and never seen a UFO! I guess I just haven't been in the right place at the right time.

I wouldn't put chemtrails and UFOs in the same category. There is a great deal of evidence to support the existence of UFOs: photos, videos, mass sightings, testimonies of military personnel, even gov't admission in Russia and Belgium, among others. Basically, the only pieces of evidence which the public lack are: 1) the U.S. government's admission and 2) a tangible UFO.

If UFOs do exist, it makes perfect sense for the gov't to deny their existence (much like the gov't denies that the Groom Lake base exists). Can you imagine how unsettling such an admission would be? First, there are the technological implications. Our entire transportation (hear that, pilots?) and scientific sectors would be thrown into temporary chaos. Then you've got the social implications: Do political parties become irrelevant? What about religion? Can we defend against an attack? The risk of going public is too great.

I think one of the most amusing quotes regarding UFOs was stated by George Bush, former CIA director. When asked about UFO secrecy by a member of his campaign committee, Bush stated: "You don't even know the half of it".

 

[secks]

Re: Chemtrails and Area 51

A lawyer used satellite photography to win his case against the government for workers at Area 51 who were dying from exposure to chemicals burned in trenches.

I don't think they won the case. If I recall, Bush Sr. signed an executive order which basically exempted the "site" from EPA regulations. Clinton renewed the EO. Thus, the case could not progress. Some of the workers eventually died, since they were not told the identity of the toxin, which was neccesary for treatment.

Makes you wonder what's so important that the EPA can't regulate any activities at the "site"? So important that workers were essentially left for dead?

 

[uscpilot]

We got off topic

How did this great BBQ thread get hyjacked into a chemtrail thread. We need to get back on topic, or if BBQ, like chemtrails, have been done to death lets try something fresh.
How bout ice hockey, my team is the Stars. Redwings suck!!
usc
PS I would let this thing die, but it doesnt look like it will happen since people cant ignore denver. Besides its fun draging it off topic.

 

[414Flyer]

We were trying to spell "X-mas" with the chemplanes, but we kept running out of chemgoo after getting a big X. Turns out the flight engineer was calculating chemgoo in gallons, but ordering it in liters.

 

[Denver130]

Chemtrails and WWII????

Is this true?

"The history of Chemtrails and Chemgoo goes back to WWII and it is a worldwide conspiracy. Check out the link below. It clearly shows B-17's and their fighter escorts spreading massive amounts of Chemgoo over Europe and disguising the whole operation as a bombing mission."

Then answer is false.

Why? Chemtrails are not jet contrails

Jet contrails form in within a scientific environmental configuration which includes high altitudes, high humidity and extremely low temperatures. Chemtrails can be dispersed at low altitudes, any temperature and any humidity.

 

[Denver130]

Area 51

It be interesting to find out if the workers won their case or not. I thought the Discovery channel said they did but I'm not sure. But what came out of it is that Area 51 does in fact exist and is owned by the government. After that lawsuit, Clinton signed an executive order baring lawsuits against Area 51. Strange huh?

Also the other big thing to remember is that it was admitted too by the government on the basis of satellite photographs. That is is the same thing going on now with Chemtrails.

Look at these new photos I put up at

http://www.geocities.com/houstonchemtrails/Houston25.html

There you have a local chem photo, a arial photo of texas, water vapor maps and humidity maps. You'll be surprised at what you see.

 

[Denver130]

Chemtrails and UFO's?

What a combo huh?

However, keep in mind one critical thing about the chemtrail issue. Its explained through science and mathematics. Once you do that, all you have to do is look at the facts (of which most of you say I do present the facts, only that I twist them).

The fact is there is nothing to twist. If what you see is

1. low altitude
2. hot temperatures
3. low humidity

we don't have jet contrails....unless....

NASA is wrong
NOAA is wrong
Colleges and science departments are wrong.
Radar images are wrong.
Jet contrail science is wrong.
Pilots are right.

Look at the latest satellite photos of the region. What do they bear out with regards to temp, humidity, water vapor?

I present

http://www.geocities.com/houstonchemtrails/Houston25.html

for your review

 

[Denver130]

Chemtrails and Santa

"Wouldn't it be more appropriate to argue if there is a Santa Claus, given the holiday season? "

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Sometimes pilots don't give the best answers. Its all science my friends and thats really your issue. The science behind the chemtrail/contrail issue is science and math. Once the boundrys are established, all you have to do is determine if the phenomenon is outside the scientific boundry. Its that easy.

And in this chemtrail case it is.

 

[Denver130]

What did the pilot see?

"As I was flying to Florida last night I saw a very nice pattern of contrails to the south. Of course, it's the kind of pattern that would make Denver absolutely crazy. It also happened to be well over the ocean, which only made me wonder... are we chemming fish now too? Talk about filling an ocean with an eyedropper!"

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What was the altitude?
What was the temperature outside?
What was the humdity levels?

If you were at 30,000ft plus with -40 or colder with sufficient humidity in the air, then you saw some wonderful jet contrails. I salute you for your observation.

However.... if it was at 10,000ft or under those low hanging clouds...I would have a problem. Why? Because it doesn't jive with the scientific explaination for jet contrails. If that was the case, then you should question what you see instead of staying with the pack.

 

[414Flyer]

About how about this. Next time you see some of these low trails, find the nearest flight school and ask for an introductory flight, or just ask to have an instructor take you up for about a half hour or hour. You will see there no such low altitude trails.

How come only conspiracy theorists and chemmies see this low altitude trails and not one time has any pilot or any meteorlogist ever seen these low altitude trails.

Nothing NASA, NOAA or any scientist has back up your belief. You keep twisting our disbelief in chemtrails into a disbelief of everyone else but you. Its you we dont beleive saw low altitude trails, and your photos do not show any either. They show trails above clouds or in the vicinity or cirrus clouds. Why dont you contact NASA and NOAA and find someone that believes you.

And frankly, if ice crystals should not perist in the air, how to do you explain snow.

 

[Denver130]

Can you show me..

As to the existence of chemtrails, here are a few thoughts:

1) If there exist documented cases of "contrails" existing where themodynamics does not predict their formation, then logically either it isn't a "contrail" or thermodynamics needs some tweaking.

2) If we assume that themodynamic theory is always correct in predicting contrail development, and these documented cases of abnormal "contrails" do exist, then these are not contrails. Then what are they? The only way we'll know for sure is to collect samples from these abnormal contrails and compare them against samples from normal contrails.

Can you show us some evidence of contrails existing where thermodynamics does not predict their formation? You'll need to show precise atmospheric conditions at the "contrail", then an official set of criteria for the development of contrails.
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I can only show you what I can find. I wish I had as much resources as a pilot does. Maybe one day I will.

In the meantime, I present what facts I've found. Most people have responded with scorn, disdain and displeasure.

However, what facts I've found are still applicable.

1. Jet contrails form when certain conditions are met.
2. When those conditions are not met, they don't form.
3. Science has defined those conditions and they are well known. The average person can easily attain them and interpret them.
4. If this issue was just a "Denver thing", none of us would waste our time studying it. But like the USA Today article says, "thousands" have contacted the FAA and citizens have rejected their explanation because it doesn't appear to fit what they are seeing.
5. Electronic evidence such as personal photos, satellite photography and weather data paint a picture contrary to what "official explanations" say.
6. Government admission by presidential hopeful Dennis Kucinich has to be taken seriously. He is a politician not a conspiracy theorist. Also, we have to look at governmental history to see if the potential for this activity is there. From what I've seen in various documents and books, I believe it is.

I have no desire to bore you pilots with falshoods and tabloidish news that has no basis in the facts. My only desire from the beginning was to find the truth because if it IS true, our country is much deeper in trouble than I thought. Our end is closer than what we realize.

 

[Denver130]

Who What Where

How come only conspiracy theorists and chemmies see this low altitude trails and not one time has any pilot or any meteorlogist ever seen these low altitude trails.

Nothing NASA, NOAA or any scientist has back up your belief. You keep twisting our disbelief in chemtrails into a disbelief of everyone else but you. Its you we dont believe saw low altitude trails, and your photos do not show any either. They show trails above clouds or in the vicinity or cirrus clouds. Why dont you contact NASA and NOAA and find someone that believes you.

And frankly, if ice crystals should not perist in the air, how to do you explain snow.
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1. The USA Today document that I presented earlier claims thousands have contacted the FAA over this issue.
2. Actually, one pilot in this thread claimed that at first, he thought my words were goofy until he saw a jet that appeared to turn his white exhaust on again and off again. If you want to see this activity from the ground, come to Galveston for a weekend and bring your camera. It happens pretty regular. I was down there for Christmas and there they go. On again and off again.
3. NASA and NOAA pictures at their web sites are deceiving. They should appear pencil thin not massive. Point your camera at your house at cruising altitude. Would it appear massive or tiny? So it is with a normal looking jet contrail from the ground. Point it at a river at cruising altitude. Does it appear massive or tiny?
4. Do ice crystals persist in the air? YES .. At what temperature do they persist? -70 degrees. would you find that in Houston which has tropical temperatures? NO. Would you find it in Las Vegas in the desert? NO (then why are they?)
5. Would you typically on a normal day find cirrus clouds in Houston? NO. Why? The temperatures are too hot. Where do you find them? In the north
6. Are conspiracy theorists and chemmies the only people seeing this phenomenon? Believe it or not, many well educated degreed people are seeing this from nuclear engineers to waitresses.
7. "Its you (Denver) we don’t believe saw low altitude trails." Then take some time this week and look up at the sky yourself. That’s what I did initially. I didn't believe it until I began to pay attention. Even the guys at work thought I was crazy until they looked up at the sky and examined the issue. Now they all believe. Most pilots have a hard time believing it is because they see it a lot at cruising altitudes where you would expect to see them. Once you see them from the ground, its a different story.

 

[Denver130]

We dont believe

You completely are unable to read or comprehend apparently.

You still dont realize its not the height of clouds being at 2000' that we doubt. So what if there were clouds at 2000'

We just dont believe that you saw these vast trails under a 2000' cloud layer.

Maybe you saw condensation trails from the wings or flaps on takeoff or landing. Or maybe you just saw nothing and your paranoia got the best of you.
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Actually, the more I study figures on cloud ceilings, the more I'm shocked at what I see. Like you say, the clouds can easily be at 2,000ft. From now on as I document my findings, I will examine some more figures which include:

1. satellite photography
2. web sites that give daily cloud ceilings
3. chemtrail photos posted on cloudy days
4. humidity and water vapor charts
5. internet radar

You'll be surprised at my findings to come.

 

[JetSpeed219]

Are you on any sort of medication Denver130? If not you NEED to be.