Chautauqua Pool

[PUflight]

Just wondering if anyone has any idea of many people are in the CHQ pool. And when all the furloughees will be recalled? When might the next new-hire class be? Providing there ever is one! Thanks in advance.

 

[ILS JNKY]

pool

one of my former instructors was higherd by them.

left for class Sept 1st , good riddens to him stoping hitting your students in the arm when they make a mistake, left that school conair have flown a lot more no hitting. the small school has also taken away severial students and some instructors also...

 

[countryflyer]

I am in upgrade training right now at CHQ, and just heard today that there are 20 guys left to be rehired. I did not hear anything about when upcoming classes are, or how many there will be, so I do not know how quickly they will get them back and then start with the PU pool. The good news is that they are almost all hired back, so it should not be too long.

 

[PUflight]

Thanks

Thanks for the info, hopefully they'll get all those guys back soon, and then me

 

[tedstriker]

I think there might be a few more than 20 to recall. From the old senority list, #562-605 are still on the street. I dont know how many of those people are planning on comming back, but everyone in my class is going to. Ill post it here when the next class is announced. V1rotate sucks.

 

[aceshigh]

last time I talked to Alex O. about this, was about a month ago and he said that approximately 40 people were left on the callback list with an average of about 70% returning. I talked to him last week and he said that there weren't any plans yet for a class after the 6/3 class. That's all gonna depend on the company needs as AAC and AWA options are delivered. I know a lot of the "furloughees" would not have returned except that most were hired by wholly owneds and right now don't have much option except to return. Also, a lot will depend how J4J turns out, which is anyone's guess right now. For all of us waiting, I guess we can take solace in the fact that AAC and AWA sides are taking deliveries (I know that's gonna P!$$ the Eagle's guys off, but that's not my intent). Oh well, we'll make it eventually.

Aceshigh

P.S. Ted, I gotta agree that V1rotate is sucking @$$ now that they got "premium" service and memberships. If I want "premium" service that i have to pay for, I can hit one of the local nudie joints.

 

[Guam360]

To any CHQ pilots,
what do you think will happen from J4J? Do you think there will be any mainline USA pilots flying at CHQ?

good to all of you.

 

[erjdriver]

Just wanna clarify. There are no ADDITIONAL jets coming on the AA side. The 145 are being replced with the 140 -- tha't it! The former TWE 145 are coming to the HP side, so the only growth is on HP (Columbus).
As far as J4J goes, it doesn't look like it's going to happen for CHQ. Rumors are that Mesa will get lots of jets.

Take care.

 

[aceshigh]

ERJdriver,

Just checked the Embraer website and it says that Wexford has 38 firm EMB-145 orders and 15 firm EMB-140 orders. I do concede that delivery dates were not available, so I didn't find out when these firm orders are to arrive, if at all. This info was listed under a section for firm orders and I'm also not sure if that includes options or not, although I would think (and hope) not as it was listed under "firm orders." Then again with Wexford, who knows. I'm only passing along what was on the website.

Aceshigh

 

[English]

Wexford...couldn't that also mean that Shuttle America is getting the jets?

 

[aceshigh]

English,

You're quite right, SA could possibly get jets. However, I'm inclined to believe (and hope) that those jets wil go to Chautauqua because of the latest agreement between U management and and U ALPA allowing up to 315 RJ's. Although I must say that I don't think anything has been finalized in regards to that agreement, I am of the opinion that if/when this agreement, U will have to go the companies who can get jets up and flying ASAP i.e. the contract carriers because they already have the firm orders that I posted previously. Also, the contract carriers have training departments that are able to handle training pilots RJ's right away as opposed to having to get up to speed. Also, CHQ has RJ pilot's in training right now, so they've already got their wheels spinning with regards to dealing with training. Just my thoughts, and my opinions and guesses are as good or bad as anyone else's right now.

Aceshigh

 

[English]

Isn't Shuttle America also a contract carrier?

 

[erjdriver]

About the Wex RJ options: Wexford leases aircraft to other companies (SK- Solitair Korporation, is also on Skyway).It's doesn't necessarily mean that because it has options for more EMB they'll go to CHQ...they can go all over the globe. I really don't think there will be any more jets going to STL with all that mess that's going on with Eagle.
I know that CHQ is always looking at other possible codeshares, so who knows what'll happen.
As far as j4j, it looks like it'll be turned down...what to make out of it it's up to the individual (i guess some FOs will have to wait for the upgrade).

PEACE

 

[Kjet]

English,

You're quite right, SA could possibly get jets. However, I'm inclined to believe (and hope) that those jets wil go to Chautauqua because of the latest agreement between U management and and U ALPA allowing up to 315 RJ's. Although I must say that I don't think anything has been finalized in regards to that agreement, I am of the opinion that if/when this agreement, Aceshigh

The 315 figure is only a counter proposal from ALPA to Airways management in response to the concessions Airways Management has asked for. No aggreements have been reached.

 

[Corbon]

Guam360
Nobody here really likes the idea of J4J so I would be really surprised if any mainline pilots will be flying for us unless its through normal hiring.
As for a new hire class whenever it happens, I think its kind of a shame that there will be 300 hour hotshots straight out of Lafayette in the hiring pool while guys with thousands of hours and years of service are walking the streets. Just doesn't seem right.

 

[PUflight]

Well I do feel bad for everyone else out there on the street, there's a little of people who have paid their dues and unfortunately no longer have a job. But if you were in my shoes or any of the other "hotshots from Lafayette" you would definitely take that opportunity and I'm sure everybody else out there would too. Looks like there will be some new hire classes really soon, and I feel very lucky and fortunate to have the opportunity to possibly be in one.

 

[bvt1151]

hotshots from lafayette

Too bad for you Corbon, the airlines hire these "hotshots from Lafayette" for a reason. They KNOW jets and have been flying for 4 years with a discipline thats been related to military flying. Better yet (or worse yet for you) during checkrides, they regularly outfly those 2000 hour pilots who are wandering the streets.
Rumor has it other airlines are starting to catch on to Purdue's potential and are looking at taking some of their 700 hour jet pilots over a 3000 hour CFI. Those kids coming out of Purdue have 4 years of flying experience. While you were in your piper at 3000 feet, they were in class learning about flying a 727 at 39000 feet. If you add up all the time spent in class studying aviation to several degrees beyond John CFI's knowledge, you'd come up with 2040 hours...not including actual flying time or the 120 hours of 727 sim time. Some say sim isn't the same as flying the real thing, and its not...how many times have you had a complete electrical failure at 29000 feet? Happens every other flight in between the dual engine fires and emergency descents for Purdue grads.
But you're right, they don't have the experience of everything going swell in the airplane or know which page of the USA Today the crossword puzzle is on. They'll learn that in IOE.

 

[Flyguy757]

Better yet, you know the best thing about these inexperienced 300 hour PU guys. And I don't mean to isolate that school, it's just that they are the topic here. When it comes time to vote on a new TA (Tenative Agreement - because they don't teach you that in school), most of those @$$es sell us out and vote for stuff that should be obviously thrown back in mgmts face. You can pay them one peanut butter and jelly sandwich per hour and those whores would still fly a jet thinking after 1000 hours they'll be getting a job at United.

For everyone young one out there reading this, ask yourself if you are willing to strike with the other guys when our contract negotiating comes to a head, which it will believe me. If you won't strike, do us a favor and don't sell us out by coming here we don't need anymore of that mentality.

Bottom line: everyone better wake up. The only growth is at the regionals. You can feed a family on PB&J sandwiches but you can't put a roof over their head with it!

I say hire the guy that has more than just aviation experience. maybe flipped a few burgers or bagged a few groceries or more. This might allow him to see his real value in the cockpit.

 

[bvt1151]

Sounds like somebody got caught up in all the union revelry and forgot about reality. Take a step back and approach the whole pilot union issue from a third person point of view. How is it justified that we make up to $350,000 a year while teachers make less than a quarter of that? And we don't even need a college education!

If a young pilot from Purdue would rather fly for pb&j than sit on the ground and bitch about how much he is (or isn't) getting paid, then I'd say he's a true pilot. If you have to be paid more than any other pilot, well then you've priced yourself right out of the market and, unfortunately when pilots do that they bring the rest of the airline crashing down around them (Eastern, Braniff, TWA, US Airways). Of course we never think about the other 55 employees per every pilot at an airline. Why do we pilots, who represent an average of 1.8% of an airline's workforce, go on strike while we're receiving 30% of the payroll?

Sounds like those Purdue grads who didn't learn about Tentative Agreements in school learned an awful lot about economics, and they know not to demand more money just because their friends at another airline get paid more.

If you think flipping burgers makes you more qualified at flying airplanes, then
United should start ab-initio with McDonalds. Perhaps then they'd be able to turn a profit.

Grow up.

 

[Corbon]

Too bad for you Corbon, the airlines hire these "hotshots from Lafayette" for a reason.

Yeah, because the company can pay them FO pay for years before they upgrade, get the PIC jet time, and move on, which saves them a ton on training costs. Chautauqua gets the most bang for their buck since they know the PU folks won't be going anywhere for long time.

They KNOW jets and have been flying for 4 years with a discipline thats been related to military flying. Better yet (or worse yet for you) during checkrides, they regularly outfly those 2000 hour pilots who are wandering the streets.

Is that printed in the PU recruitment brochures or do you just tell each other that at graduation? Do you guys have "Purdue University Super Pilot" stamped onto your Commercial ticket or does it look just like mine?

Rumor has it other airlines are starting to catch on to Purdue's potential and are looking at taking some of their 700 hour jet pilots over a 3000 hour CFI. Those kids coming out of Purdue have 4 years of flying experience. While you were in your piper at 3000 feet, they were in class learning about flying a 727 at 39000 feet.

And you wonder why so many people tend to resent Purdue grads? It's the "holier than thou" attitude you have so arrogantly expressed. And by the way, that is 4 years of strictly supervised flight experience for the most part starting from 0 hours. The decisions are already made for you as to what the conditions are in which you can fly. And you must be using the term "jet pilot" very loosely because, unless policy has changed, only a select few get to fly the Beechjet.

If you add up all the time spent in class studying aviation to several degrees beyond John CFI's knowledge, you'd come up with 2040 hours...not including actual flying time or the 120 hours of 727 sim time. Some say sim isn't the same as flying the real thing, and its not...how many times have you had a complete electrical failure at 29000 feet? Happens every other flight in between the dual engine fires and emergency descents for Purdue grads.

Well, outside of the standard stuff Flightsafety throws at me in the 145 sim, none. But then again, I don't have the luxury of using the phrase "this is how we do it in the 72..." to impress my captains.
My previous post wasn't against Purdue or the origional poster, but more against the bridge program that gives preferential hiring to relatively low time pilots who haven't experienced many aspects of aviation. Sure, I wish them the best of luck and am not questioning their knowledge or piloting ability but I firmly believe that they should have to graduate, find flying jobs that test their dedication, build their hours, so, as FlyGuy757 mentioned, they can appreciate moving upward in the aviation pipeline. It would be great to have a 121 jet job lined up after college and I don't blame anyone for taking it if offered.
I actually transferred out of the flight program at Purdue because I hated the attitude and went on to get my ratings on the side, working on the ramps, instructed a ton, got promoted to flying part 91 ops and built up some jet and turbine time, then got hired by CHQ. And I guarantee you I learned more doing that then I could have in 4 years at any university and I wouldn't trade those experiences, the good or the bad, for the world.
You'd probably think it would be a tragedy if Purdue grads were out on the street while pilots with thousands of hours have jobs.
Seems like you're the only one here who feels the need to justify themselves.

PUFlight, good luck. Looks like with the addition of Delta Connection, we'll be hiring soon.

 

[frqntflyr]

I'm going to try and squeeze a question in between this match. I'm a CHQ poolie from purdue also (yes I've flipped burgers, instructed and waited tables, so please no animosity). This may be a stupid question but do you think orlando will go really senior? I ask b/c I'm from the south florida area and would love to come back. 4 years in lafayette and i realize winters aren't my cup of tea. One more thing.....as I sit here anxiously awaiting a phone call with my lease ending in aug 15, I'm wondering if anyone has heard anything about when the first new hire class may come into play? Thanks in advance!

 

[airzim]

OH!

I see now. BVT1151 is with Comair. That is why he is so messed up. He's one of the "REGIONAL JETS BELONG AT THE REGIONAL CARRIERS, NOT THE MAJORS" kinda Comair guys. I'm sure he was hired later, but fits in well with all the other heroes who paid Comair $10,000 each and worked long hours without pay. But then got all wrapped up in "all the union revelry and forgot about reality" by expecting their union brothers at the other ALPA airlines to pay for them to strike their way out of the damage their own pilots caused the profession. I'd be crazy to think he was going to thank his fellow ALPA pilots for buying Comair the contract he currently enjoys. BVT is not alone at Comair though. I'm sure a fair majority feel zero gratitude for the rest of us ALPA pukes who dug them out of the mess they created for themselves there so they could have a nice contract and fly their RJ's.

 

[slapstick]

Why would someone choose to flight instruct for 3000 hours, knowing they could go through a school with a bridge program and get an airline job much faster? (not to mention an education)i'm not talking about the early '90's, i'm talking about the way things are now. i'm sorry you had to "earn your job the hard way", but i don't plan to instruct and flip burgers for a few more years just to earn your respect. If you were presented such an opportunity, you'd have taken ahold of it without a second thought.


Military pilots can fly T-38's after as much time as it takes the rest of us to 'upgrade' to a Cessna 182. Agreed, 300 hours is very low time, but there is something to be said for quality of training experience. How much is a 3000-hr. CFI learning with every new touch and go?

 

[h25b]

I'm a former CHQ pilot and Purdue grad. wishing to interject some reason here. Especially since I'm no longer in the airline game... (By choice, not furlough...) The opportunity given to us is, by any measure, is an outstanding one. Also one that ANYONE would take advantage of. But, it's a priviledge, not a right and could all come crashing down with a CEO or other management change at CHQ. I joined CHQ with about 800 hrs. and soon found out that the percentage of 727 knowledge used is about zero. All that brain beating teaches you is how to learn systems. It DOES NOT teach you one thing about stick and rudder skills. That's where tooling around in a Piper, Cessna, or whatever helps out. Don't think for ONE MINUTE that just because you've got 100 hrs. in the 727 sim, the Beechjet type (along with those 100 hrs.), etc. that your GRRRR EAT.

Keep your mouth shut about your background and prove yourself behind the stick. Which isn't entirely difficult. I guess what I'm saying is BE HUMBLE. Statements like, "They KNOW jets and have been flying for 4 years with a discipline thats been related to military flying. Better yet (or worse yet for you) during checkrides, they regularly outfly those 2000 hour pilots who are wandering the streets." is NOT being humble. I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with all of that nonsense, but I think when you are given the kind of opportunity we were and are still given those are the kind of statements that if thought, they're not vocalized.

It's times like these, when those less fortunate are wandering the streets, hoping like hell to get back in to the cockpit and feed their families, that we keep our mouths shut and greatfully accept ANY opportunity afforded us. Purdue IS a fine school that allowed me to have some pretty cool deals float my way, but it sure didn't teach me everything. Keep level heads and the rest you'll figure out as you go.

 

[Checks]

How can you guys be in a pool for CHQ when the HR lady told me they arent hiring and still have guys laided off? Just curious because I will calling her back again tomorrow.

Also,

"They KNOW jets and have been flying for 4 years with a discipline thats been related to military flying.



Did the guy who wrote this have military time under his belt? Did he fly F18's with the Marines in Desert Storm and then transfer to Purdue to finish his education? Maybe it was the Navy and F-14's? Or the Army and AH-64 Apaches? Just curious....seems like he knows a lot.

 

[slapstick]

I can't stand arrogant pilots, either. But I haven't noticed any more arrogance around Purdue than anywhere else where pilots are. (I could mention attitudes at another university, but we don't need more finger-pointing).

h25b, I agree. We don't think for a minute that knowing 727 numbers will ever be of real value, but we recognize that it helps prepare us for ground school in any transport-category airplane. Our profs tell us this.

I only wish people wouldn't flame Purdue for the opinions of a few vocal and overly-proud students.

 

[pilotdad]

Checks

Checks, the Chautauqua pool most likely results from the announcement of the new codeshare aggreement with Delta. The pilots currently flying the Orlando routes are going to be offered the positions first. Whether or not they choose to stay with Comair for seniority purposes and are willing to move or choose to stay near Orlando and start at the bottom of the seniority list with Chautauqua will be their choice. If they choose to stay with Comair, this will open up several positions for Chautauqua. Some will be absorbed by the ongoing retraining of the Saab pilots into the RJs. This is where most of the recall is occuring at the present. And given the fact that these flights out of Orlando are not due to commence until November gives Chautauqua a little time to sort things out, hence the pool in waiting.

 

[pilotdad]

h25b's post

h25b hit the nail on the head. An arrogant attitude will get you nowhere in this profession. Better learn to drop it before you get to an interview, because it will not "fly" there. Take heed of his entire post.

 

[frqntflyr]

Re: Checks

"The pilots currently flying the Orlando routes are going to be offered the positions first."

what is that all about? I thought that comair will be moving into DFW. If the orlando guys leave comair, then comair will be short on pilots for DFW, wont they?? I can see CHQ interviewing in the near future to fill these positions, but I doubt one single comair guy is going to jump to the bottom of CHQ's seniority list. It just doens't make any sense other than not having to move....and thats never a certainty. What if MCO goes real senior (although if there are lower payscales for the EMB-135 this probably wont be the case). Then are these comair guys going to magically bid the most senior base at CHQ soon after they start? I don't think so. Just doesn't make sense pilotdad....maybe I'm just not understanding your post.

 

[pilotdad]

Frequent

Maybe it does not make sense, but that is the word I have heard. There might be some newbie FOs working there that might be interested in keeping the route. I do not know how senior MCO is to Comair. It is just an option thrown out to them I guess. Comair I believe has a large pool to draw from so I do not think they will be short of pilots. Like you say, it probably won't be senior since they will be flying the 135. Who knows in this business.