Chautauqua Outlook

[jaybird]

To those that say "we'll fix our payrates in the next contract," I have one thing to ask you (ignoring the fact that a lot of damage will be done during the duration of your contract). What are you going to value as more important the next negotiation round, payrates, or quality of life improvements to keep you in step with the other airlines' contracts? Because basically what you're doing, whether you know it or not, is setting yourself up to always have an inferior contract. Getting that extra day off next time around, or fixing your broken reserve system (that seemed like a good idea at the time of your contract until your company read between the lines and shredded it to pieces) is going to cost you payrates... payrates that you don't have room to negotiate with. Good luck.

I wasn't here at CHQ for the vote, but one of the main reasons for the lower pay (which was an improvement over the last contract) was due to stoping the formation of an alter ego carrier. Additionally I think I can say with confidance that our work rules are just as good as any other regionals out there.

Also, I'm curious as to what other companies require for health insurance premiums? AFA, anyone?

 

[Otto]

I did a 10 year pay compairison on CHQ vs. Comair. Upgrade at CHQ is about a year and 9 months. What is it running at Comair? 6 years? Based on those figures two pilots that got hired a year and 9 months ago, one at CHQ and one at Comair, the CHQ guy is a captain now. Over a ten year period the CHQ pilot will earn $60,000 more. So now the question becomes who really makes more? I don't think anyone "intends" to spend more than ten years at a regional. C210

C210drvr,
For those at CHQ that were lucky enough to be hired in the past 2-3 years, your analysis is correct but your thinking is still flat wrong. The gist of the idea is "lower pay is okay if I upgrade quicker because low Captain pay is better then the highest FO pay somewhere else" right? You say the upgrade at CHQ is 1 year and 9 months but the reality is that a new hire today has a much longer upgrade date. You have 112 aircraft with 27 E-170s on the way (11 for UAL and 16 for DAL) for a total firm number of 139. Assuming 10 pilots per plane, that means as of now you will only need about 1400 pilots by the end of 2005. That means anyone 900ish or below will certainly be facinig more then a 1 year 9 months upgrade. To be guaranteed an upgrade, a new hire today would need CHQ to acquire 81 more aircraft over the next year...highly unlikely, especially when you consider 33 current planes are dedicated to U.S. Air so who knows what will happen to them. Lower pay for growth is a bad idea because at some point, the growth has to stop and you are left with simply lower pay. But you are thinking "Yeah it sucks for our stuck FO's but I got my PIC time and I can move on" right? You allude to this:

"So now the question becomes who really makes more? I don't think anyone intends to spend more than ten years at a regional."

That fact is there are many people at ASA, Comair, Eagle, etc who never thought they'd be lifers but suddenly they are and someday there will be many at Chq who will find themselves in the same boat...maybe even YOU. There simply aren't going to be anough major jobs to absorb all of the regional pilots. With that in mind, you'd better make each contract a good one. I don't really blame you guys for the last contract since mgt. had a gun to your head with Republic but PLEASE don't use this low pay for growth arguement with me!

 

[I.P. Freley]

1 year and nine months?

A friend of mine is upgrading next month and he's been there since the last quarter of '02. That makes it over two years by my count...

Obviously that number changes from month-to-month, but he will have been there nearly six months longer than that "1 year nine months" when he starts ground school. That's still a quick upgrade by any standard though, at least "these days".

 

[i'mbatman]

1 year and nine months?

A friend of mine is upgrading next month and he's been there since the last quarter of '02. That makes it over two years by my count...

Obviously that number changes from month-to-month, but he will have been there nearly six months longer than that "1 year nine months" when he starts ground school. That's still a quick upgrade by any standard though, at least "these days".

Not everyone upgrades the day their number is up....also, he may have needed more time to get the necessary time req's.

 

[I.P. Freley]

Not everyone upgrades the day their number is up....also, he may have needed more time to get the necessary time req's.

Unless you need over 4000TT for upgrade, his time wasn't the issue... He upgraded as soon as he was able.

 

[172driver]

Additionally I think I can say with confidance that our work rules are just as good as any other regionals out there.

Also, I'm curious as to what other companies require for health insurance premiums? AFA, anyone?

Oh really? What is your max duty day? Rest rules? What kind of rigs do you have? Who provides your pager?

I am a single guy. I pay $26.82 a month for medical. How does it compare?

 

[Afixedwing]

Oh really? What is your max duty day? Rest rules? What kind of rigs do you have? Who provides your pager?

I am a single guy. I pay $26.82 a month for medical. How does it compare?

Max duty day: 14hrs
Rest Rules: Too convoluted to memorize
Rig... you mean my fishing rod?: a four-piece 5wt Sage DS2
Pager: You have to carry a pager? that sucks.

 

[Stick Man]

Survey says EEEEEHHHHNNNTTTT! Try again I.P.

Unless you need over 4000TT for upgrade, his time wasn't the issue... He upgraded as soon as he was able.

WRONG I.P.

My friend and co-worker was hired in the spring of 03 and he is upgrading to CA in the Jan 25th class.

Your friend is a liar or you are. Your friend may have taken over two years to get awarded the base that he wanted or he may have waited for the ability to get a CA hard line, but he did not upgrade as soon as he was able. The J4J's have been told they will most likely upgrade in May or June and they were hired in October/November of 03. Do the math.

 

[FDJ2]

This argument keeps getting tossed around, but it's kind of apples to oranges. Back when Comair and ASA started feeding Delta, they fed using planes that mainline (management or pilots, either one) did not want to fly, and did not have a pay rate for. That's the important part.

Just wondering if you could provide a refence for the claim that mainline pilots don't want to fly regional jets? Perhaps there is a document that states that mainline pilots don't want to fly the small jets. Mainline pilots at DAL don't have a pay rate for 747s, A340s, 7E7s etc., does that mean we don't want to fly them too.

 

[sweptback]

Just wondering if you could provide a refence for the claim that mainline pilots don't want to fly regional jets? Perhaps there is a document that states that mainline pilots don't want to fly the small jets. Mainline pilots at DAL don't have a pay rate for 747s, A340s, 7E7s etc., does that mean we don't want to fly them too.

I'm not trying to start a flame war. All I said is that somebody, either management or ALPA, didn't want mainline flying regional jets. You guys scoped it out, right? That sure sounds like it wasn't wanted to me.

 

[jaybird]

Max duty day: 14hrs
Rest Rules: Too convoluted to memorize
Rig... you mean my fishing rod?: a four-piece 5wt Sage DS2
Pager: You have to carry a pager? that sucks.

Also, my favorite no junior manning. When I'm done, I'm done. No calls over ATL radio, or messages from ops telling me to call scheduling when I get on the ground. 12 days off for line holders and 11 days off for reserve.

Right now for my family and I it's $70 a month. I think for a single person right now it's 30.00 a month. I was just curious on this one, I have no clue what other regionals provide.

 

[172driver]

No junior manning is good but as to the rest of it...you may want to look at the work rules in some other contracts before spouting that you have the best. Not trying to rip you guys, I just don't like seeing you brag about a part of your contract that is clearly not something to brag about.

Just to clear up the inaccuracy, I perused your contract and here's what I came up with:

1. One less guaranteed day off per month for reserves (31 day month).

2. Your duty limit is 14 hrs scheduled,16 actual. Ours is between 11 and 13.5 scheduled (depending on rpt time), 12.5-14.5 actual.

3. No cancellation pay.

4. No block or better.

5. 75% deadhead vs. 100%.

6. $1.50 perdiem vs $1.75.

7. Straight pay for extra flying vs. time and a half.

8. 10 hr. ready/hot reserve vs. 6 hrs.

9. No health coverage for what...90 days?

10. How many hrs are your lines built to?

 

[jaybird]

Hey big guy don't get your panties in a wad. I never said we had the best, just that our work rules were as good as any other regional out there.

We do get cancellation pay with a 98.5% complteion factor.
We do get block or better.
No hot reserve.
I don't specifically remember when health coverage started it was 30 days or less.
Min line 78 hours max 92 hours

Who's contract are you reading?

 

[172driver]

Yours...you better read it again. If you get block or better, I sure didn't see it. The 10 hr hot reserve is definitely in there.

What about the rest of it? You still say your work rules are as good? Stop drinking the Kool Aid.

 

[jaybird]

Yours...you better read it again. If you get block or better, I sure didn't see it. The 10 hr hot reserve is definitely in there.

What about the rest of it? You still say your work rules are as good? Stop drinking the Kool Aid.

No CHQ pilot has ever sat hot reserve since I've been there, I sat reserve for four months when I started over a year ago. It may not specifically no hot reserve, but it's never used and probably never will be unless an unusual number of pilots start calling off last minute. I don't know what to tell you, but my paychecks always come with my block pay especially when it's over.

If I'm missing something here someone please let me know. 172, the other things you mention are compensation, except for your duty limits. Other than compensation, I'd bet our QOL is comparable to yours and much better than many others. Thats my opinion.