CFI needs a BFR?

[Bringupthebird]

Does a CFI need a BFR if he renews his CFI online and uses his "evaluation of other pilots" clause as the basis for his CFI flight portion of the renewal? Are there any circumstances where a CFI would require a BFR?

 

[A Squared]

Does a CFI need a BFR if he renews his CFI online and uses his "evaluation of other pilots" clause as the basis for his CFI flight portion of the renewal?

Yes. Read 61.56. THere is nothing in there that remotely suggests that an administrative renewal of your instructor certificate would waive the requirement for a flight review.

Are there any circumstances where a CFI would require a BFR?

Yeah, if he acts as pilot in command, he needs a flight review. What would lead you to believe that a CFI might be exempt from the requirements for a flight review?

 

[Bringupthebird]

If provisions exist that allow a CFI to renew their instructing priviledges without the need for a flight test, why are those provisions inadequate to prove that they can still fly safely? From a purely pragmatic standpoint, why is one CFI going to try to teach and evaluate another CFI on maneuvers and topics they teach on a daily basis?

I would be interested to hear how many CFI's ever get biennials.

 

[A Squared]

If provisions exist that allow a CFI to renew their instructing priviledges without the need for a flight test, why are those provisions inadequate to prove that they can still fly safely?

Because the law makes no provision for that. It's that simple. You can argue the logic of if he is qualified for one certificate why not the other but it's a purely acedemic arguement. The regulations aren't written that way, so the logic really is irrelevant.

The regulations say you have to have a flight review every two years. The regulations do not allow you to substitute an adminstrative CFI renewal for a flight review.

There's not much more to the issue.

From a purely pragmatic standpoint, why is one CFI going to try to teach and evaluate another CFI on maneuvers and topics they teach on a daily basis?

from a purely pragmatic standpoint: Because the regulations require it.

I would be interested to hear how many CFI's ever get biennials.

All of them who meet the regulatory requirements to act as a pilot in command

 

[nosehair]

Clue: The FAA regulation does not see 'pilot certificate' the same as 'flight instructor certificate'.

 

[Catnhat]

Does a CFI need a BFR if he renews his CFI online and uses his "evaluation of other pilots" clause as the basis for his CFI flight portion of the renewal? Are there any circumstances where a CFI would require a BFR?

The only portion of the Flight Review requirement waived for a CFI is the ground portion under 61.56(f) if the CFI has completed an approved course for renewal. Otherwise, there is no link between CFI renewal and the requirement for a flight review that I have ever heard of.

 

[midlifeflyer]

I would be interested to hear how many CFI's ever get biennials.

Hopefully all of them get a FR or one of the acceptable substitutes (CFI renewal is not one) or the FAA is going to have some fun with certificate actions.

From a purely pragmatic standpoint, why is one CFI going to try to teach and evaluate another CFI on maneuvers and topics they teach on a daily basis?

From a purely pragmatic standpoint, what makes you think a CFI has already learned everything there is to know about being a pilot and could not use periodic reevaluation and refreshers on piloting skills? And who says that what will be evaluated will be the stuff the CFI teaches on a daily basis?

 

[CFIse]

I would be interested to hear how many CFI's ever get biennials.

I'd be interested in how many CFI's have pencil whipped FRs. I can't tell you the number of "part-time" CFI's who asked me to endorse their FR without ground or flight training as a "professional courtesy". So I was professional and courteous as I told them to get lost.

Most fun I ever had for an hour was flying with another CFI. Probably also proving the old theory that the most dangerous flight is with 2 CFIs at the controls......

 

[pgcfii2002]

The CFI renewal does count towards the ground portion of a BFR, but you still must fly for the minimum 1 hour.

 

[midlifeflyer]

I'd be interested in how many CFI's have pencil whipped FRs. I can't tell you the number of "part-time" CFI's who asked me to endorse their FR without ground or flight training as a "professional courtesy". So I was professional and courteous as I told them to get lost.

Not only professional and courteous, but appropriate as well. My hat's off to you.

 

[rickair7777]

Clue: The FAA regulation does not see 'pilot certificate' the same as 'flight instructor certificate'.

This is very true and the technicality even extends to regs regarding a flight test for a pilot certificate counting as a FR...since an instructor checkride is not a test for a "pilot certificate", it does not automatically count as a FR. You can ask the examiner to give you a FR endorsement concurrent with the checkride, but it is not automatic.

Note: some FSDO's seem to accept an instructor checkride as a reset of the FR clock, even without a FR endorsement (san diego for example). But I believe this is not the case everywhere.

 

[rickair7777]

Not only professional and courteous, but appropriate as well. My hat's off to you.

Yeah, at least spring for an hour in a 152, followed by lunch...common courtesy.

 

[Mr Wu]

The CFI renewal does count towards the ground portion of a BFR, but you still must fly for the minimum 1 hour.

Couldn't be bothered looking up the exact wording of the FAR but it says something to the effect that an active instructor does not need to do the ground portion. An instructor where I used to instruct came under scrutiny from the FAA because of an incident with one of his students. He was violated because he was using the date of his CFI issuance as his BFR date and didn't have a seperate entry for the BFR (or didn't perform one). His was expired.

 

[A Squared]

An instructor where I used to instruct came under scrutiny from the FAA because of an incident with one of his students. He was violated because he was using the date of his CFI issuance as his BFR date and didn't have a seperate entry for the BFR (or didn't perform one). His was expired.

Interesting, the FAA actually does pursue enforcement actions on this basis. This is why I give this dead horse another kick every time it comes up. There's still instructors who haven't got the word, and it's a shame for somone to get a violation when they thought were in compliance with the regs to the best of thier (flawed) understanding of those regs. I guess this provides the answer to those who always pop up in these threads and say "that's bull$hit, the FAA would never bust somone for that, an inspector told me so"

Yes, they do, apparently.

 

[rettofly]

I would be interested to hear how many CFI's ever get biennials.

I haven't had a BFR in decades, but I do get Part 135 6-mo IPC (135.297) and 12-mo recurrent (135.293) checks, which satisfies the BFR requirement.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

CFI's need a flight review every 2 years regardless. And the CFI, CFII or MEI checkride DOES NOT count as a BFR.

 

[CFII_4Ever]

CFI's need a flight review every 2 years regardless. And the CFI, CFII or MEI checkride DOES NOT count as a BFR.

Are we sure about this. I was always under the impression that initial checkrides do in fact take the place of a BFR.

Can anyone verify this as I sit here sweating?

 

[A Squared]

Are we sure about this. I was always under the impression that initial checkrides do in fact take the place of a BFR.

Can anyone verify this as I sit here sweating?

Unless you got an endorsement stating that the CFI ride also was intended as a flight review, then no, it would not count. All the checkrides which exempt you from the requirement for a flight review are *pilot* checkride, and a CFI checkride is not a pilot checkride.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

Are we sure about this. I was always under the impression that initial checkrides do in fact take the place of a BFR.

Can anyone verify this as I sit here sweating?

Well, you're not going to like this, but it's true. Your CFI ride does not count as a certificate, rating or operating privilege in the eyes ofthe FAA. Although they cover pretty much the same material, unless at the time of the checkride it is agreed that it will also function as a BFR, you can not count the CFI ride in and of itself as resetting the 2 yr clock.

§ 61.56 Flight review.

(a) Except as provided in paragraphs (b) and (f) of this section, a flight review consists of a minimum of 1 hour of flight training and 1 hour of ground training. The review must include:
(1) A review of the current general operating and flight rules of part 91 of this chapter; and
(2) A review of those maneuvers and procedures that, at the discretion of the person giving the review, are necessary for the pilot to demonstrate the safe exercise of the privileges of the pilot certificate.
(b) Glider pilots may substitute a minimum of three instructional flights in a glider, each of which includes a flight to traffic pattern altitude, in lieu of the 1 hour of flight training required in paragraph (a) of this section.
(c) Except as provided in paragraphs (d), (e), and (g) of this section, no person may act as pilot in command of an aircraft unless, since the beginning of the 24th calendar month before the month in which that pilot acts as pilot in command, that person has—
(1) Accomplished a flight review given in an aircraft for which that pilot is rated by an authorized instructor and
(2) A logbook endorsed from an authorized instructor who gave the review certifying that the person has satisfactorily completed the review.
(d) A person who has, within the period specified in paragraph (c) of this section, passed a pilot proficiency check conducted by an examiner, an approved pilot check airman, or a U.S. Armed Force, for a pilot certificate, rating, or operating privilege need not accomplish the flight review required by this section.

 

[A Squared]

Your CFI ride does not count as a certificate, rating or operating privilege in the eyes ofthe FAA.

Just to clarify, it's not a *pilot* certificate, rating or operating privilege. That's the crux. Obviously, the Instructor certificate is a certificate, and a rating on that certificate is a rating. They are just not *pilot* certificates and ratings.