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Cessna Super X

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TORCH67

Well-known member
Joined
May 17, 2004
Posts
135
I have heard some rumors about a follow on Jet to replace the X. Has anybody heard anything about a Super X or Citation 12 etc.... I have heard that it will have 16k in fuel(3k more) and it will do .95. The last X's have or will be off the production any time now. I can't believe that Cessna will give up on this market!
 
you weren't sitting in fsi with me this week? We heard all about it over and over again. :)
 
No Diesel, a couple of weeks ago though! Did Emmitt give you the rumor info about his cousin or brother or brother-in-law? Just thought I would see if anybody else knew anything else!
 
I think it's brother in-law.

Until i see it come from cessna, i'm a little skeptical.

So far nada from cessna.

Pretty funny though we both know the source?
 
Actually, Cessna did put winglets on at least one X. But when Russ Meyer got a phone call from his golfing buddies over at Bombardier, the winglets quickly went away. I guess a few years ago, Meyer stated to his Bombardier buddy that the LearJet needed winglets to fly right side up.....and that REAL airplanes don't need winglets (ie Citations). As you can imagine, when the word got out about the X with winglets, Bombardier was quick to call Meyer and question why a REAL airplane would need winglets.

True story? Maybe, maybe not......probably just as much truth as a Citation 12. Also heard that Cessna wouldn't make the 12 unless NetJets would place an order for 150.
 
TaxiDriver said:
Actually, Cessna did put winglets on at least one X. But when Russ Meyer got a phone call from his golfing buddies over at Bombardier, the winglets quickly went away. I guess a few years ago, Meyer stated to his Bombardier buddy that the LearJet needed winglets to fly right side up.....and that REAL airplanes don't need winglets (ie Citations). As you can imagine, when the word got out about the X with winglets, Bombardier was quick to call Meyer and question why a REAL airplane would need winglets.

True story? Maybe, maybe not......probably just as much truth as a Citation 12. Also heard that Cessna wouldn't make the 12 unless NetJets would place an order for 150.
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Nuts... and I thought it was the vibrations casued by the winglets that scrapped the project.
 
I don't buy it. How many back orders of the X does Cessna still have to deliver? They have already announced the Encore+, and it won't start deliveries until early 2007. We would have heard about/will hear about it (if it happens) well before the current production line ends.

They might redesign the model or improve upon it, that wouldn't surprise me, but I guarantee you'll hear about it well before they switch production lines.
 
TaxiDriver said:
Actually, Cessna did put winglets on at least one X. But when Russ Meyer got a phone call from his golfing buddies over at Bombardier, the winglets quickly went away. I guess a few years ago, Meyer stated to his Bombardier buddy that the LearJet needed winglets to fly right side up.....and that REAL airplanes don't need winglets (ie Citations). As you can imagine, when the word got out about the X with winglets, Bombardier was quick to call Meyer and question why a REAL airplane would need winglets.

True story? Maybe, maybe not......probably just as much truth as a Citation 12. Also heard that Cessna wouldn't make the 12 unless NetJets would place an order for 150.
Click to expand...

Cessna had those winglets on and off that X until recently and did a fair amount of research how they affect the performance of the X. To get any benefit from em, you had to fly above 410, otherwise there was no benefit and even a degredation in performance was observed at the lower altitudes with winglets. Just recently (as in a few months ago), Cessna had winglets on an XL as well........Dont know what the outcome of that was though. Russ doesnt have too much to do with cessna anymore since he stepped down a few years ago. He's on the board at Shares though.
 
As far as I know there are no back orders for the X. The production line is comming to an end or has finished already.
 
gunfyter said:
Cessna won't sell the Citation XII to NetJets. CS is getting them.
Click to expand...

I don't buy that either. Why would cessna pass up on an opportunity to make sales and aircraft orders. If NetJets wanted them, I can guarantee you Cessna would come to some sort of an agreement.
 
TORCH67 said:
As far as I know there are no back orders for the X. The production line is comming to an end or has finished already.
Click to expand...

I believe that XO Jet is scheduled to get one X about every 6 weeks for the next 6-8 months or so. At least thats my understanding from the folks I know that work there.
 
Why would RTS want more of 'em? So they can go .95 from service center to service center?

Just teasing guys.
 
I actually walked the Cessna X line on Feb. 2 2006. We had a sales rep and a tech rep give us a guided tour. They told us "we are down to one shift per day in production" and "we have about 25 Xs on the order books including the ones you see here". We saw serial number 254 getting pressure checked, and there were three fuselages and the start of two wing assemblies.

As far as the rumors of the Super 10...

"A number of industry sources have confirmed a hush-hush plan to build at least one test plane in an effort called the Super 10 Initiative. GE, NASA and all the major powerplant and airframe manufacturers--including Lockheed Martin--are involved. Though it meets weekly, until now the group has operated outside the public eye. The Initiative will send detailed proposals to NASA early in 2005 with the hope of securing additional funding and support for an experimental test plane, the Super Sonic Cruise Technology Demonstrator." source: http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/aviation/1303021.html

I asked about this aircraft and the tech rep said that they have done early research but nothing solid and that the "Super 10" rumor was started from the above article...
 
gutshotdraw said:
Why would RTS want more of 'em? So they can go .95 from service center to service center?

Just teasing guys.
Click to expand...

Well I have over 40 hrs this week on one. just grounded it but it will be up in the morning for my 0630 hot standby... with 3 more days to go on my 10 day tour.
 
paulsalem said:
Anyone have an article or picture of the XII. I can't find anything on Google.
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Shhh. It is a secret, so you will not see it on google. That is unless you search "widebody supersonic jet."

:-}
 
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TORCH67 said:
As far as I know there are no back orders for the X. The production line is comming to an end or has finished already.
Click to expand...

I don't think that's entirely true. Production is very slow though. In December I saw the X production line in ICT on a factory tour and they were still making 'em. They had at least half a dozen airframes in various stages. But I certainly agree it's not booming. The Soveriegn line as a lot more planes being pushed through. They said on the tour something like only 20 Xs produced last year compared to 70 or so of the Soveriegn.

when I was there, I saw a new pair of X wings just laid out by themselves being assembled and I thought to myself those are the most beautiful pieces of aeronautical engineering ever created.
 
For what its worth, I spoke to a Cessna sales rep at NBAA and asked about this subject.

Question: Any plans on a successor to the X?

Answer: They are looking into it, and have mocked up a larger cabin demo for consideration. Longer range is also on the table, but it will still be a .92 aircraft due to regulatory and certification considerations. Timeframe is still way off in the future.
 
Guitar rocker said:
Cessna had those winglets on and off that X until recently and did a fair amount of research how they affect the performance of the X. To get any benefit from em, you had to fly above 410, otherwise .
Click to expand...

You make it sound like the X doesn't get up to those high altitudes much. If you use a X like a X is supposed to be used, you'll be above 410 more often than not.
 
I heard a rumor that netjets is looking to move owners into the new CL300. dispatch rate is too low. The CL300 is almost as fast and will be more dependable. Unless they decomputerize the X, I think they should let the line die. The airplane is kind of like those first chrysler cars of the 80's. Digital dashes and "door is ajar" talking at ya all day. It was high tech but it sucked. The X is a great airplane aerodynamics, engines, systems, mechanically sound, but hindered by it's overcomplexity with the CAS messages and computer unreliability.

My 2 cents
 
cezzna said:
I heard a rumor that netjets is looking to move owners into the new CL300. dispatch rate is too low.
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When did NetJets get Challenger 300's? I haven't seen a bid yet.
 
Sorry may be thinking of a different jet than the 300, maybe the hawker horizon. Heard that they want to unload the X's cause dispatch rate is so low.
 
The X will be the falcon 20 of the corporate fleet or the sister the 727. It will be around a LONG TIME. But some of our Xs have 8000 hours on them and I'm sure those will be sold off...but there is not an airplane out there or one on the the drawing boards that can compete with its Range (3200 book) speed (.90 all day long real world) and runway numbers (5000 ft dry can get you coast to coast most of the time).

Great airplane, a little glitchy, but when properly maintained they run great. During the summer struggle they were running awesome because they were actually getting the required MX. The one weak spot...the lav. It is a dream to fly, challenges you just the right amount, but also rewards attention to detail. Great brakes, great reversers, great speedbrakes, great slat and flap numbers, good avionics, crappy seats. Perfect plane for Judge Judy types...NY to CA with 2-4 pax at .90

Cessna still has full page ads in all of the aviation pubs for the X. The line is not shutting down, they just are slowing down now that there are actually some on the used market IMO.
 
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"Judge Judy" types are retired judges that have a syndicated show on the B class networks called "Judge Judy" and who live in NY and fly to LA a couple times a month to film their show....all the while saving 30-45 min and .5 to .8 $$ savings on occupied time in the aircraft and getting 10% more distance for said flying time. A X can cover the same miles in 200 hours that a hawker or lear can cover in 220 hours (over longer distances)

In other words people that travel coast to coast a lot with 1 or 2 people. Think tech companies in SJC for the NY meeting and back.
 
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