Cessna 182 crash on video

[A Squared]

Tell that to the crew of Apollo 1.

Well, that would be difficult, becuse they are dead. However if it were possible to communicate with them, I am fairly certain that the crew, because they were not stupid, wouldn't need me to tell them that it wasn't oxygen burning that killed them (oxygen doesn't burn) it was the flammable portions of the spacecraft burning at an accelerated rate because of the high concentration of oxygen which killed them.

 

[Say Again Over]

I'm not an engineer like A-Squared but I do seem to remember the fire triangle taught in Fire Fighter-1 class, went something like, Fuel, Heat, Oxygen. Take one away and you have nothing.

 

[Dangerkitty]

I assume that you are talking about getting a cut going and turing off the acetylene and keeping the cut going with just oxygen. It's not the oxygen burning, it's the steel. Try this: turn off your acetylene, turn on your oxygen, and take your striker and get a nice oxygen flame going. Check back when you realize that you're neve going to get a pure oxygen flame going




I'll let you in on a little secret here danger kitty, I am utterly unimpresed by "scary" stories from people who don't understand enough chemistry to understand what's happening to them. Yes I'm sure that there was a fire. I am equally sure that it was very very scary. Other than that it's a complete yawn and only demonstrates your ignorance. Oxygen does not burn. It's not physically possible. Ask any chemist (or a high school student with a rudimentary grasp of chemistry, something you obviously lack)



Ummmm, I think that your statement might just be a little stupider than mine, seeing as yours is wrong and mine is not.





Yes I'm aware of that, probably much more aware of it than you. You are so clueless sthat you don't even realize that pointing this out doesn't do anything to support your ignorant misconceptions (is that redundant?)


Here's a couple of links which you would have done well to have read before opening your yap and displaying for all the world to see how truly ignorant you really are.

http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/chem03/chem03291.htm

http://antoine.frostburg.edu/chem/senese/101/reactions/faq/is-oxygen-flammable.shtml

http://www.lungusa.org/site/pp.asp?c=dvLUK9O0E&b=1081413

This would be an excellent time for you to apologize for acting like a complete horse's ass when you didn't have a clue what your were talking about.

Ok, ok my words were very strong and for that I apologize. O2 is not a fuel but an accelerant or oxidizer. And having 100% O2 blowing into a fire is only going to make matters worse.

While you are handing out reading material you might wanna have a look at this:

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20031205X01998&key=1

This is the "scary" story I was referring about.

 

[A Squared]

O2 is not a fuel but an accelerant or oxidizer. And having 100% O2 blowing into a fire is only going to make matters worse.

Absolutely, concentrated oxygen and a fire is a very bad combination. It was never my intention to suggest that there aren't certain dangers associated with oxygen, only that the oxygen itself doesn't burn.

I apologize for responding so strongly. I don't take well to being called idiotic when my statement is completely accurate, but maybe I culd have voiced my objection differently

While you are handing out reading material you might wanna have a look at this:

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20031205X01998&key=1

This is the "scary" story I was referring about.

You're right, that would get the adreneline flowing. Good to see everyone walked away

 

[Dangerkitty]

I apologize for responding so strongly. I don't take well to being called idiotic when my statement is completely accurate, but maybe I culd have voiced my objection differently

No need to apologize, I was acting like a jackass. I would have had the same reaction had the situation been reversed.

:beer:

 

[GravityHater]

Awsome...good post. At least I liked it, anyway]

Gee, thanks. Not bad for 3/4 of a bottle of 2001 Piesporter in me, I thought. Payin' for it today though!

 

[HS125]

Regarding the comments on this sad crash. I have to ask: How did we arrive at the following notes in this thread?

-high
-hot
-overloaded
-overgross
-inexperienced pilot
-short runway
-long runway misused
-goosing it off
-aft cg
-too much flaps
-flaps retracted too early
-high da
-apparent he didn't check W&B
-sank because he came out of ground effect
-won't climb with that much flaps
-poor judgement
-max gross or greater​

I ran though the thread and plucked all these comments verbatim.
I am the biggest speculator of all, we can learn a lot from it but I think we are guilty of a lot of inference here.
There is not the slightest indication of most of the conclusions offered here. There isnt any way we can know what how much fuel was onboard, or what the airplane weighed and thus if it was below, at, or overgross.
There is no way to know the elevation or the temperature and thus the D.A.
There is no way to know the flap extension unless you have applied some pretty detailed analysis to the images.
Inexperienced pilot? Hell I don't even know his name let alone his hours logged.
Short runway? Someone said plenty of runway. What is the runway length? I can't even tell from the vid where the runway is! Who knows if it was short or not!
Aft CG. Cmon, that is WILD speculation. Can you see the elevator in the full down position or something?​

I don't think this is nitpicking. I think if we speculate, for reasons of wanting to learn, we should at least offer each idea as a possible reason, not as fact. Such as presented in a question: "Could he have had a W&B problem?
I expect higher from FI participants. Look at the video again. All I see is an airplane crash on takeoff with a huge crowd around. A little uncoordinated flight is suspected. REALLY hard to infer all that other stuff. Provide visual evidence to support your suggestions!​

What he said!

Best post on this thread, I was thinking the same things as I read through this thread.

 

[pilothouston123]

Well said Gravityhater. What about tailwind. check out the smoke after the fire. It looks like a quartering tailwind... It must have been really scary for the pilot who was trying to do the right thing. I don't think we should bast him too badly. He is not the first to make a mistake in the air that cost lives. And he will not be the last. Anyone of us is at risk to make a mistake in an airplane. Maby not like any we have seen here. But maby a new one that none of us has thought of yet.

imho and my$.02

 

[jws717]

It looked like poor rudder control after rotation, look at how sideways he gets.. By the way O2 can not burn on its own, just like something such as fuel can not burn without O2. it is just as essential as a fuel but not actualy burning, only a catalyst.

 

[Murdoughnut]

While I admit my ignorance of how O2 works, I can't help but think back to that bus full of relocated Katrina victims that caught fire outside of Dallas. Most were elderly and had 02 tanks, which allegedly made the fire far far worse than it would have otherwise been. Sad.

 

[ultrarunner]

Tell that to the crew of Apollo 1.

Their capsule was pressurized with 100% oxygen. That's nasty stuff around a spark.

 

[Mmmmmm Burritos]

Heck for all we know maybe the front seat passenger saw all the people running around on the runway and tried to "hit the brakes" and floored a rudder pedal as they were lifting off.

That's when you use the ol flight instructor trick passed down by many generations... whack em in the nose with the back of your hand.

 

[FN FAL]

Heck for all we know maybe the front seat passenger saw all the people running around on the runway and tried to "hit the brakes" and floored a rudder pedal as they were lifting off.

I kind of felt that might be a likely scenario, or even a shifting of some of the gear that was loaded onto the plane that might have interfered with the contols.

 

[A Squared]

While I admit my ignorance of how O2 works, I can't help but think back to that bus full of relocated Katrina victims that caught fire outside of Dallas. Most were elderly and had 02 tanks, which allegedly made the fire far far worse than it would have otherwise been. Sad.

Absolutely, it does make the fire worse. With concentrated oxygen, stuff that normally burns, burns much faster, and stuff that normally wouldn't burn *will* burn, so any fire is made much bigger, faster and hotter. But, the oxygen does not burn.