Centurion Cargo

[HA25]

You know what... On second thoughts I take back all I've said.

ALL ACMI is crap bottom feeder.. World, Atlas, Gemini, all..

Unions are only for Godless commies...

Upstarts are all great, and they have no moral reason to pay anymore than anyone is willing to work for.

And You are all right, and I'm wrong... and frankly I'm also board of repeating myself.

 

[FearlessFreep]

V70T5:

Good for you! I love spirited conversation!

I am quite focused. It's just not in the same dog pack manner that you are. That's your choice it's just not mine. No insult is intended, it's just a statement of different personalities and methodologies.

Here let me help you: http://www.alpa.org/DesktopModules/A...39&Ta bid=181

Don't need your assistance, and certainly didn't ask for it. I would never follow an ALPA link, thanks for not renaming it.

As far as the conservative/liberal/socialistic stance, you are just echoing what the masses are currently saying, it's not if your a Democrat or Republican - it's the issues that matter. Now the difficult thing is getting a consensus on them.

V70T5, Good chatting with you. Not going to agree with you though, and nothing that you say will change that, period.

Bellerophon:

I cannot say that I know all the historical details of UPS acquisitions and how they were affected. I can tell you that there was more than just Challenge. Orion was another one and I believe that they had a union, Custom, Ryan and a myriad of other companies after flying UPS freight were also given the short shrift and some of them were union as well if I remember correctly. The thing is that if a union is not willing to treat all people with respect & dignity, let them be given the opportunity to have a job with decent renumeration, and not be bounced out because of the union's conceit of exclusivity has serious issues. Seniority list integration is another issue and is another quagmire entirely, but not being considered at all is pretty low and certainly does not incite support or good will from those being so discriminated. As far as being a pilot at any company that might be acquired by UPS, you can kiss your job goodbye - it's not a possibility, it's a fact. Otherwise for the most part from my understanding if you are a member of the IPA their support is unwavering. Good for them.

Whistlin' Dan:

Thanks for your insight. I have heard UPS horror stories as well. Nothing in the airline industry is all that great anymore. The days of wine & roses is long in the past, though at times looking from one side of the fence to the other it might not appear that way.

Good Luck To Us All!

 

[rotor&wing]

Every single UPS pilot, from the newest new-hire to the #1 guy on the seniority list, owes that guy a great big kiss on the lips every payday, because without him, they'd all be flying MD-11's for $125/hr instead of $216, and there would be no job security beyond their next landing, wherever that might be. Trust me, I was there..

I don't think so Dan.

 

[HeavyjetDC8]

ALPA have been a disaster for organized labor showing more interest in preserving a piece of Washington's political pie over the security and career advancement of their dues paying members. Their adroitness at dodging management sidewinders from 6 o'clock has demonstrably been less than stellar.

Remember Emery? It's astonishing that any current flight crew member could be so naive as to support this shower of self-serving reptiles. Union: an unqualified Yes; ALPA: a most definite No. There are much better options. Any union is only as strong as its membership wants it to be, which is why Centurion is probably a hopeless case.

 

[B737Dvr]

V70T5, please dont go, we like you!!!!!!!

lol, you are on one side of this convo against people with softer means, and you capitulate and "get tired of repeating yourself".......we win we win!!!!

just kidding man, dont go, because its due to you that this thread went from 1 page with a couple of responses to 4 with 40ish......you may not have won support, but you did draw interest in and now alot more people have come to read about how crappy this cargo airline is, and that is why i can appreciate what you try to advocate even if it is 1 foot forward then 2 feet back....

try 2ft forward and 1ft back and you wont have to repeat yourself more!!!!
lol!!!!!

 

[Whistlin' Dan]

ALL ACMI is crap bottom feeder.. World, Atlas, Gemini, all..

Unions are only for Godless commies...

Upstarts are all great, and they have no moral reason to pay anymore than anyone is willing to work for.

Let me make it clear that the PEOPLE who work ACMI carriers aren't crap. For all the hoopla that surrounds the hiring (and remuneration) of pilots at the Big Two, ACMI pilots are a pretty professional group. I doubt that any substantive, quantitative differences in job performance could be drawn between the pilots of say, "FedEx" and whatever "bottom feeder" ACMI organization they might be compared to. The ACMI pilots are simply workers who, in a society where the welfare of the middle class is being subordinated to lower-cost (and often undocumented) workers and "outsourcing" (both domestic and foreign), have been "caught in the open."

My only concerns with the unions,and this applies to all of them, are that 1) they're spending too much time and money fighting battles on the local level that really need to be fought in Washington, D.C., (see my post above concerning McArtor and the need to make airlines real, as opposed to "virtual," companies), and; 2) that we tend to put too much emphasis on longevity when negotiating pay rates. Compensation scales based on the economic theories of Popeye's sidekick "Wimpy" ("I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today") simly don't work when, like Wimpy, many companies simply aren't around "next Tuesday."

As a side note...Air cargo, or more specifically, "overnight express" is booming right now. This is a happy time to be in this business. The biggest players are growing and making money (DHL isn't, but that's only because of their arrogance and gross mismanagement). Some of that money, of course, trickles down to the ACMI carriers. As King Neptune could tell you, "crabs do well, when they're not trying to be sharks."

But what happens when that growth stops?

My guess is that the pilots of both Brown and Purple will allow increased outsourcing in exchange for short-term income growth and promises of job security, in much the same way as the Legacy carriers "grew" their regional affiliates (with mainline ALPA's blessing) in the 90's.

Will we see guys "stalled" for 15 or more years in the right seat at the branded carriers, while the ACMI carriers are promoting to the left seat in 2-3 years? It's not out of the realm of possibility.

The Chinese have an old saying..."May you live in interesting times."

It's a curse...

 

[HA25]

Here, I think this is a great link to end this thread on..

http://www.avjobs.com/salaries-wages-pay/index.asp

Now, you all take turns.. what's wrong with this picture? (hint, look at the average column).

 

[ATR-DRIVR]

Riiiiiight.....

 

[ATR-DRIVR]

I don't even know where to start.. I'm at a loss for words.

We would really wish that were the case....

Oh by the way, during what is sure to be a VERY short loss, could you please employ a spell checker? You know for just the basic things like...
"PEARS" would that be 'PEERS'?
"LOOSE" might that be 'LOSE'?
"BOARD" possibly may be 'BORED'?

You might want help filling out those international flight plans and things...
Good luck Fog....

 

[HA25]

We would really wish that were the case....

Oh by the way, during what is sure to be a VERY short loss, could you please employ a spell checker? You know for just the basic things like...
"PEARS" would that be 'PEERS'?
"LOOSE" might that be 'LOSE'?
"BOARD" possibly may be 'BORED'?

You might want help filling out those international flight plans and things...
Good luck Fog....

From my favorite Jet Blue "bar raising" pilot..

Resorting to substantive debating points I see.... Well, since English is a 2nd language and I can speak 3 others .. I have nothing to feel bad about with regards to my spelling.. I do my best, and I've gotten by for 25+ years in this country with it. But thanks for your concern.