Central Air down near KC

[Flybet3]

Please, explain to me where you will find in official faa publications such as (PTS, Private, Commercial or ATP) where, "having your ass handed to you" is a requirement for demonstrating proficiency and obvious command of an aircraft with the outcome of a maneuver never being in doubt?

Facts speak volumes.

Fact. - An AC50 sits pancaked in the middle of a field in Missouri.

Fact. - Two souls perrished in the incident above.

Fact. - This has been described as an originating flight with the purpose of instruction under a FAR Part 135 Training Program (implicitly approved by the CHDO).

Fact. - The Landing Gear and doors are clearly visible in the extended position under the right nacelle of the above aircraft.

Fact. - Both Flaps are positioned in the full down position in the same aircraft.

Fact. - 10k+ ATP pilots have stalled, spun in and died in the traffic pattern turning base to final at a frequency not afar from that of student pilots.

Fact. - FAR 135 ME Flight instruction kills more operator's pilots every year than Revenue Operations. 2003 FAA/NTSB/ASF Study of 1992-2002 FAR 135 incidents.

Different people handle different stresses differently. It is possible to have Zero Tolerance and adherence to the PTS limitations while being comfortable worked on an association of failures, tasks and assignments while demonstrating that stated above. WITHOUT BEING AN ASS or HANDING SOMEONE THEIRS! I have never washed out of anything or failed any applications although I can tell you there were times where I cut it a little close and should have been made to do it all over again. Some of my most valuable experiences that I hold nearest and dearest were the ones where I royally fouled up a situation that by ONLY GOD's Grace I am here today and was granted the reprieve to see my wife and kids again.

Those are the experiences that have made me what I am today not some analytical ball-buster pushing me to the brink of mental white-out. I would caution anyone else, adding their $.02 about murray if ther care to preserve what a great guy he was. Chime-ins like that so far will only narrow the focus on his actions historically and more than there will already be given the nature of the flight.

What goes around comes around. There is always a bigger bully than you. Hand out enough "ass' eventually some gets handed back to you.

12k hour pilots crash because, "there ain't nothing they never have seen that they can't handle".

Lifelong "Gold Seal" Instructors crash becaues, "there ain't no student they never have seen that they can't handle".

I won't speak as to what murray was thinking prior to this misfortune, but the most time in the subject aircraft with a history like that disclosed above, what said he about his experience and ability to prevent the obvious outcome as it were?

Again, I do grieve and relish in no man's demise. It frustrate's me immeasurably now more than ever that experience and "know-how" failed miserably today and two lives perrished because of it.

100-1/2

Who give's a crap what you think... 2 guys are dead, left family behind and all for a pay check and the desire to do what they loved.... I'll say it on behalf of everyone. You're a fag! shut up

 

[Morettis]

100-1/2 go back to the shed with the rest of the tools.

I don't have a problem with people brainstorming about what may have gone wrong with a flight before the NTSB comes out with a finding, but you're just pissing on their graves.

 

[Nightowl]

This is the second D.O. and one of many friends I have lost to this profession. God be with Murray and his young student's families.

To this day I tell the story of my check-ride with Murray years ago during the Central Air days. Murray simultaneously turned off all the cockpit lights, simulated single engine, covered my attitude indicator, directional gyro, and required I fly a full procedure ILS approach. There I was single engine, partial panel with a flashlight in my mouth to see the instruments that still worked while trying to talk on the radio and fly to minimums. He wasn't trying to be mean or tricky, but he wanted me to know that an airplane can turn into a real snake if it wants to. After proving to him, and myself that I could fly that plane no-matter what he signed me off. I needed that confidence for some of the challenges I would have to face. He didn't raise his voice and stayed very even keeled, and even gave me a smirk and a quiet British good job when we were through.

No doubt Murray has saved many lives by not taking it easy on us like so many choose to do. Thanks for making me better Murray we'll miss you

This is absolutely correct...I credit Murray for also saving my life and being a very positive influence on many many young pilots. He took a very proactive professional approach to training. I throughly enjoyed my time with Central Air and will remember Murray with great admiration.

 

[goodgig]

Thoughts right before T/O roll.

"Hmm. Mag drop is a little steep by a couple rpm tonight. Guess I'll have to call that in on the other end.....'


"Wait a minute. That hiney munch 100 1/2 told everyone to be careful!!!!!!. I'm taxing back!"

100 1/2, in your own Omniscient


world, is that what you think your post is conveying?

You are coming off like a 200 hour know-it-all.

 

[NoPax]

If anyone knows of the funeral / memorial service for Murray Brown, please PM me.


Murray was a ray of hope in the Freight business, and a very competent instructor and mentor for me.

He gave me a tough, but fun check-ride, that challenged me to the core, when I was a low time wannabe pilot with 1800 hours, looking for my first 135 job.

I too had the lights out, flashlight in my mouth, flying a full procedure, partial panel etc...I still have a lot of respect for Central Air Southwest and guys and girls that go to work there every night.

Keep it together folks.

Pete

 

[Live2Fly]

I too was trained by Murray to fly the Commander. He was a great instructor. I gained a tremendous amount of winter weather flying experience while at Central Air.

One thing that I will always remember is this: The owner installed Stormscopes in all of the planes. Each lightning strike was denoted by a dot on the screen. Murray said 'If you ever run out of dots, give us a call, we have more of them'.

At least a half dozen pilots that have worked for Central Air have flown for the company that I work for. Every one of them is now flying jets for a living and still having fun.

We need more Murray Browns out there in the aviation world.

We'll miss him.

 

[Bluecruiser]

Please, explain to me where you will find in official faa publications such as (PTS, Private, Commercial or ATP) where, "having your ass handed to you" is a requirement for demonstrating proficiency and obvious command of an aircraft with the outcome of a maneuver never being in doubt?

Facts speak volumes.

Fact. - An AC50 sits pancaked in the middle of a field in Missouri.

100-1/2

Sir...

The first item in your list of "Facts" is wrong...the aircraft went down in Kansas, not Missouri....doesn't matter really I suppose, except to point out that rapid-fire FlightInfo emails usually are written without thorough knowledge or understanding.

Second....the tone of your posts is reminiscent of these newer FO's I fly with, the know-it-all's. Some with the spikey hair, some without. So, we're all eager to know....have you been to the crash site lately? Perhaps you are with the NTSB and already know the facts? You saw some pictures on the news, so did we. Why not wait until further (official) details are released to prove you are correct?

Not everyone who visits this site is a student-pilot. Take it easy and stop the sanctimonious lectures for the rest of us.

Third, you understand the term "having your A$$ handed to you". You know that no one is suggesting its a 'requirement'....why are you being such a jackass?

 

[wanttofly]

I also took my initual checkride with Murray, great guy. I really fear what is going to happen to Central without him there. The "chief pilot", owner is a real piece of work. RIP Murray.

 

[Grinder10]

I still have the company Christmas card of 411JT on my fridge.

 

[Lownslo]

I appolagize if someone has more time than I to read all these posts. 100 1/2, no one knows who you are, and quite honestly, no one gives a dam. Murray was a hell of a pilot and never let anyone by that didn't deserve it. Rest In Peace Murray, and the other pilot I didn't know. May God bless your family in this time of mourning for you both.

heems