Central Air down near KC

[goodgig]

100-1/2



Take your own advice: "Knock this crap off guys and gals. You are better than this!" (but then again maybe you are just a d1ck)

Maybe?????

Uh, lets vote.

 

[Firefly]

Murray Brown was a great pilot, mentor and friend I will greatly miss him. I will pray for his family and the other pilots family as well as for everyone at Central Air.

 

[Fedora]

Well, By gosh! Look what we got here boys! A by God, KNOW IT ALL in the flesh! Why, he's got it all figured out already. No need to bother with those FAA boys or the NTSB government folk!
And he's got passion that can't be matched by none of us here mere mortals! Golly gee, I ain't never seen anybody like this before. Do ya think maybe he was BORN in a cockpit or that God gave him some divine aviation knowledge that made him so much smarter that everyone else? No sirree, ain't seen nothing like it before!
And I hope I don't see it ever again!
What a pompous jerk.

 

[100-1/2]

It is amazing how much "elaboration between the lines" upon what I have said here has erupted with defensive replies utilizing terms like "reckless" and "careless". Those sir are your words and not mine.

As for spitting on anyone and armchairing anything, Where in any of these posts can you quote a declaration or otherwise from me that anyone deserved this or that these deaths were justified? I have judged, convicted and condemned NO ONE here?

I have however PLEADED! Reduce the risks, take the time and give caution for evil lurks around every corner waiting to seize the opportunity to take your life and when you least expect it giving no regard for how nice or great of a pilot or person you are.

Now the PC Police in basement bathrobe attire strolling the web telling me to crawl under a rock will say, I here am inferring Murray failed to do ANY of these things. That is Your speculation and NOT mine.

Guns don't kill people, ME aircraft publish a gliding distance and speed and Vyse guarantees no pilot anything whatsoever. As a 20-something 135-Aspiring/Continuing prodigy, I would trust with all of Murray's experience, proficiency and aptitude, that no matter how bad I muck-up an aspect of a flight, as My DO and My Instructor, he will make sure I make it back safely at the end of a flight to do it all over again another day as has been noted by some. As have many of you I am sure, in my more than 3 decades of flying, I have run across the "freezer" who will lock everything up after doing something stupid and try to kill you. Only when we reach that great pilot lounge in heaven and can hear firsthand from Murray will we know just how much hell be beat out of the guy trying to get the controls back. How's that for speculation? First, that I would be so worthy in all of my pathetic-ness to deserve a spot in the lounge and lastly, that Murray would give me the time of day once there?

I am not going to waste my breath defending myself against anything I have not said. I have said I grieve for the loss of two compatriots yesterday. The inability to adequately relay condolences while cautioning against a developing trend in our industry that has now claimed the life of a "trusty-old-friend" and in the face of overzealous Political Correctness is deeply disturbing to me. At no time have I reveled, relished or found pleasure in this circumstance at your unjustified accusations of other intent is alarming.

There is no need to form another thread as it is clear if my intentions cannot be grasped from that already versed, nothing more I can say would contribute to anything other than wasted breath on an unworthy recipient.

I will say while opinions will differ, emotions will be charged and feathers will get ruffled, I would buy any of you a beer any day of the week and twice on Sunday. And I will come out from under my rock to do it.


100-1/2

 

[ctab5060X]

As for spitting on anyone and armchairing anything, Where in any of these posts can you quote a declaration or otherwise from me that anyone deserved this or that these deaths were justified? I have judged, convicted and condemned NO ONE here?

Bold for emphasis, color for comments...

I'll go first.

Full Flaps, Gear Down, small and compact crash site with debris scattered in a yawing momentum pattern.

hmmm... judging all this from a picture and video...without even being there...bravo!

Density Altitude was 2800' at the surface around 8pm last night. Couldn't have been much lower around 11am with an overnight low of 65' with 80% humidity.

In basic multi-engine instruction 20 years ago, we spent an hour briefing the maneuvers, calculating stall speeds and density altitudes for the conditions expected prior to flight. I have sat in many fbo's in earshot of schools and 135 training flights where these factors received little or no redress. Too, many flight departments are too quick to rush through training in order to put a check in a box and sign someone off fit for PIC duty. They further pi55 in murphy's cornflakes when the instructor permits students' performances to encroach their own personal limitations which in this case we will find were well beyond the limits of the airframe for the ambient conditions that existed at the time.

sounds like judge and jury...espcially coming from someone who later stated...

an open mind gathers significantly more data and absorbs a additional preliminary information

I will say while opinions will differ, emotions will be charged and feathers will get ruffled,

I will agree that emotions are charged right now because the majority of us in this thread lost a good friend...and an instructor who we can thank for being where we are today, not only as pilots, but as individuals.

From your post, you obviously did not know Murray (or anything about the Aero Commander), so why don't you come down off of your high horse and let those of us who did know Murray grieve and remember the good times we had flying with him and for him.

When the FAA and NTSB finally release some information, and we have laid a friend to rest, then maybe we (that is spelled...those of us that knew Murray) will discuss the how's and why's of this accident.

 

[ctab5060X]

On another note:

I am trying to find out information concerning services for Murray.

Let me know if you want the information when I get it. PM will be fine.

Dpeneding on my schedule (I have a 4-day this weekend), I am going to try and be there.

 

[xkuzme1]

...

100-1/2

I cannot tell you how ashamed of you I am. I am sure that your parents and your grand parents are ashamed of you as well. Your head must be the loneliest place in the universe.

You have no honor, and you have no integrity.

You should really take stock in yourself and do some soul searching.

If indeed you are a fellow aviator, then today and only today, i am ashamed of myself to be connected to you in any way shape or form.

That is all i have to say to you.

 

[Mr Krinkle]

Muzz was hands down the best pilot I ever knew. I'm grateful to have known, worked for, and learned so much from him.
We've lost a father, brother, son, mentor, and good friend.
Godspeed,
MB

 

[356emain]

Muzz was hands down the best pilot I ever knew. I'm grateful to have known, worked for, and learned so much from him.
We've lost a father, brother, son, mentor, and good friend.
Godspeed,
MB

Well said

 

[av8rnate]

This is the second D.O. and one of many friends I have lost to this profession. God be with Murray and his young student's families.

To this day I tell the story of my check-ride with Murray years ago during the Central Air days. Murray simultaneously turned off all the cockpit lights, simulated single engine, covered my attitude indicator, directional gyro, and required I fly a full procedure ILS approach. There I was single engine, partial panel with a flashlight in my mouth to see the instruments that still worked while trying to talk on the radio and fly to minimums. He wasn't trying to be mean or tricky, but he wanted me to know that an airplane can turn into a real snake if it wants to. After proving to him, and myself that I could fly that plane no-matter what he signed me off. I needed that confidence for some of the challenges I would have to face. He didn't raise his voice and stayed very even keeled, and even gave me a smirk and a quiet British good job when we were through.

No doubt Murray has saved many lives by not taking it easy on us like so many choose to do. Thanks for making me better Murray we'll miss you

 

[Flybet3]

Please, explain to me where you will find in official faa publications such as (PTS, Private, Commercial or ATP) where, "having your ass handed to you" is a requirement for demonstrating proficiency and obvious command of an aircraft with the outcome of a maneuver never being in doubt?

Facts speak volumes.

Fact. - An AC50 sits pancaked in the middle of a field in Missouri.

Fact. - Two souls perrished in the incident above.

Fact. - This has been described as an originating flight with the purpose of instruction under a FAR Part 135 Training Program (implicitly approved by the CHDO).

Fact. - The Landing Gear and doors are clearly visible in the extended position under the right nacelle of the above aircraft.

Fact. - Both Flaps are positioned in the full down position in the same aircraft.

Fact. - 10k+ ATP pilots have stalled, spun in and died in the traffic pattern turning base to final at a frequency not afar from that of student pilots.

Fact. - FAR 135 ME Flight instruction kills more operator's pilots every year than Revenue Operations. 2003 FAA/NTSB/ASF Study of 1992-2002 FAR 135 incidents.

Different people handle different stresses differently. It is possible to have Zero Tolerance and adherence to the PTS limitations while being comfortable worked on an association of failures, tasks and assignments while demonstrating that stated above. WITHOUT BEING AN ASS or HANDING SOMEONE THEIRS! I have never washed out of anything or failed any applications although I can tell you there were times where I cut it a little close and should have been made to do it all over again. Some of my most valuable experiences that I hold nearest and dearest were the ones where I royally fouled up a situation that by ONLY GOD's Grace I am here today and was granted the reprieve to see my wife and kids again.

Those are the experiences that have made me what I am today not some analytical ball-buster pushing me to the brink of mental white-out. I would caution anyone else, adding their $.02 about murray if ther care to preserve what a great guy he was. Chime-ins like that so far will only narrow the focus on his actions historically and more than there will already be given the nature of the flight.

What goes around comes around. There is always a bigger bully than you. Hand out enough "ass' eventually some gets handed back to you.

12k hour pilots crash because, "there ain't nothing they never have seen that they can't handle".

Lifelong "Gold Seal" Instructors crash becaues, "there ain't no student they never have seen that they can't handle".

I won't speak as to what murray was thinking prior to this misfortune, but the most time in the subject aircraft with a history like that disclosed above, what said he about his experience and ability to prevent the obvious outcome as it were?

Again, I do grieve and relish in no man's demise. It frustrate's me immeasurably now more than ever that experience and "know-how" failed miserably today and two lives perrished because of it.

100-1/2

Who give's a crap what you think... 2 guys are dead, left family behind and all for a pay check and the desire to do what they loved.... I'll say it on behalf of everyone. You're a fag! shut up

 

[Morettis]

100-1/2 go back to the shed with the rest of the tools.

I don't have a problem with people brainstorming about what may have gone wrong with a flight before the NTSB comes out with a finding, but you're just pissing on their graves.

 

[Nightowl]

This is the second D.O. and one of many friends I have lost to this profession. God be with Murray and his young student's families.

To this day I tell the story of my check-ride with Murray years ago during the Central Air days. Murray simultaneously turned off all the cockpit lights, simulated single engine, covered my attitude indicator, directional gyro, and required I fly a full procedure ILS approach. There I was single engine, partial panel with a flashlight in my mouth to see the instruments that still worked while trying to talk on the radio and fly to minimums. He wasn't trying to be mean or tricky, but he wanted me to know that an airplane can turn into a real snake if it wants to. After proving to him, and myself that I could fly that plane no-matter what he signed me off. I needed that confidence for some of the challenges I would have to face. He didn't raise his voice and stayed very even keeled, and even gave me a smirk and a quiet British good job when we were through.

No doubt Murray has saved many lives by not taking it easy on us like so many choose to do. Thanks for making me better Murray we'll miss you

This is absolutely correct...I credit Murray for also saving my life and being a very positive influence on many many young pilots. He took a very proactive professional approach to training. I throughly enjoyed my time with Central Air and will remember Murray with great admiration.

 

[goodgig]

Thoughts right before T/O roll.

"Hmm. Mag drop is a little steep by a couple rpm tonight. Guess I'll have to call that in on the other end.....'


"Wait a minute. That hiney munch 100 1/2 told everyone to be careful!!!!!!. I'm taxing back!"

100 1/2, in your own Omniscient


world, is that what you think your post is conveying?

You are coming off like a 200 hour know-it-all.

 

[NoPax]

If anyone knows of the funeral / memorial service for Murray Brown, please PM me.


Murray was a ray of hope in the Freight business, and a very competent instructor and mentor for me.

He gave me a tough, but fun check-ride, that challenged me to the core, when I was a low time wannabe pilot with 1800 hours, looking for my first 135 job.

I too had the lights out, flashlight in my mouth, flying a full procedure, partial panel etc...I still have a lot of respect for Central Air Southwest and guys and girls that go to work there every night.

Keep it together folks.

Pete

 

[Live2Fly]

I too was trained by Murray to fly the Commander. He was a great instructor. I gained a tremendous amount of winter weather flying experience while at Central Air.

One thing that I will always remember is this: The owner installed Stormscopes in all of the planes. Each lightning strike was denoted by a dot on the screen. Murray said 'If you ever run out of dots, give us a call, we have more of them'.

At least a half dozen pilots that have worked for Central Air have flown for the company that I work for. Every one of them is now flying jets for a living and still having fun.

We need more Murray Browns out there in the aviation world.

We'll miss him.

 

[Bluecruiser]

Please, explain to me where you will find in official faa publications such as (PTS, Private, Commercial or ATP) where, "having your ass handed to you" is a requirement for demonstrating proficiency and obvious command of an aircraft with the outcome of a maneuver never being in doubt?

Facts speak volumes.

Fact. - An AC50 sits pancaked in the middle of a field in Missouri.

100-1/2

Sir...

The first item in your list of "Facts" is wrong...the aircraft went down in Kansas, not Missouri....doesn't matter really I suppose, except to point out that rapid-fire FlightInfo emails usually are written without thorough knowledge or understanding.

Second....the tone of your posts is reminiscent of these newer FO's I fly with, the know-it-all's. Some with the spikey hair, some without. So, we're all eager to know....have you been to the crash site lately? Perhaps you are with the NTSB and already know the facts? You saw some pictures on the news, so did we. Why not wait until further (official) details are released to prove you are correct?

Not everyone who visits this site is a student-pilot. Take it easy and stop the sanctimonious lectures for the rest of us.

Third, you understand the term "having your A$$ handed to you". You know that no one is suggesting its a 'requirement'....why are you being such a jackass?

 

[wanttofly]

I also took my initual checkride with Murray, great guy. I really fear what is going to happen to Central without him there. The "chief pilot", owner is a real piece of work. RIP Murray.

 

[Grinder10]

I still have the company Christmas card of 411JT on my fridge.

 

[Lownslo]

I appolagize if someone has more time than I to read all these posts. 100 1/2, no one knows who you are, and quite honestly, no one gives a dam. Murray was a hell of a pilot and never let anyone by that didn't deserve it. Rest In Peace Murray, and the other pilot I didn't know. May God bless your family in this time of mourning for you both.

heems