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Central Air down near KC

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No soap box.

A Plain and Simple Pleading.

My passion for this industry and those whom comprise it cannot be measured or matched.

Every time a preventable accident like this happens, more and more ammunition is given to the airlines to say we are unsafe and should be overregulated into non-existence. It starts by saying, this plane or that is unsafe. This person or that type is unfit for DO,CP or instructor. This operator or that one flying that equipment requires more insurance or cannot do their own training in house because it cannot be done safely outside of simulated instruction. Real practical experience is the most valuable environment from which to learn. However, there are some flight regimes, better experienced where you can bring your flight crew and aircraft back to life. You hold a number of 121 types? Have you ever demonstrated Vmc or V1 Engine Outs in any of those airplanes? Why is it acceptable in 135? The reason is it can be safely accomplished and far more economically under 135. However, "the more time you spend on the edge, eventually you run out of room." The numbers are plain and simply against you. Congress, the FAA, families and insurance companies feel with enough regluation, bureacracy and oversight, nobody will ever die in an accident again.

Murray likely was a most valuable contribution to this industry and will be sorely missed. However, the FAA made a shift some number of years ago changing the tone, attitudes and environment within the cockpit during checkrides and airman practical applications. Suddenly, Inspector's longevity was increased with 66 percent less fatalities every year while pass/fail ratios remained unchanged.

I love your comment on "dancing". Your education and experience listed in your avitars say you should have better read my posts. I will make it more elementary for you:

1. Please, Please, Please, Stop crashing airplanes and doing stupid stuff that makes it harder and harder for the rest of us left behind to clean up the mess and answer to the baby with the bathwater bureacrats that think new rules and requirements from the rest of us will prevent future accidents from killing anyone else.

2. If at anytime you are uncomfortable with the conduct of an examination, an operator, dispatcher, maintenance manager or that feeling deep down in your gut, exercise your right to discontinue whatever it is you are being asked to do. Land, go home, hug your wife and kids come back and do it again another day when circumstances have changed. Polish up your resume and go somewhere else if you have to. The point is GO HOME! ALIVE to fight another day. If you cannot discontinue a progression leading to your death in a training environment, how are you going to do the same on the line presented with the same set of circumstances?

3. I have not been assigned to this investigation. But since you asked, enroute to every site, it is customary to assemble a wealth of information prior to arriving on site as is being/has been done. On site, an open mind gathers significantly more data and absorbs a additional preliminary information. Scarring and impact damage occurs on various components and instruments indicating orientation and readings at the time of impact. I will spare you the remainder of the data considered out of respect for the departed. Within a couple of days the investgation team will depart with a preliminary consensus among the members although an official printed release will often require several months while reassembly and operation of powerplants, propellers and safety equipment confirm the initial site findings. By that time there will have been many more pages here going on about me and what an ass I am for asking and pleading with everyone to take better care of eachother and our industry before someone else decides we ought not be any longer; in life or in operation.

Now, read my other posts again. Then read this one again and tell me how much more elementary this needs to be.

100-1/2
 
This is the 2nd person that I know for me in a week, Mark in the Wiggins crash and now Murray. Murray hired me at Central Air, and did my training. He was a good instructor and a great guy. This past week has been brutal. Both of them use to be my D.O. (Mark and Murray). Godspeed guys.

I have more to say, but I just can't right now. I'm actually kindove pissed off. This is crap. I guess I just don't get it. It has suddenly hit close to home this last week. It was always someone else, or some half-assed carrier that didn't know what they were doing. Just goes to prove that you can never say that "it will never happen to me", because we are all human and these are inherently dangerous machines.

For some reason it is actually very difficult NOT to think, not very long ago, I was 22 and getting instruction in the Shrike, taking great pride in the fact that I stuck with it and I finally was getting paid to fly instead of instruct. The guy getting the training from Murray was probably boasting with the same pride inside. It's very unfortunate that he will never get to see what all this life and career has to offer, and the adventurous that laid ahead of him. It's a shame.

I know there is nothing scientific about that, but sometimes it doesn't have to be.
 
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Given the way the ownership has run that place over the years, I think that it's safe to say that Murray is probably the reason many of us are alive today.

Murray was a FABULOUS instructor

Murray did not take foolish chances

Murray approached Commander training as seriously as any airline approaches a 737 or similar aircraft

Murray was always the voice of reason when others in charge at CA were not doing the right thing

Murray did my training 13 years ago and I owe him a debt of gratitude and a prayer

100 1/2 - Start your own thread if you wish to opine about the "bottom" part of this industry and don't screw with this thread any more.

Godspeed Murray.

PIPE
 
Given the way the ownership has run that place over the years, I think that it's safe to say that Murray is probably the reason many of us are alive today.

Murray was a FABULOUS instructor

Murray did not take foolish chances

Murray approached Commander training as seriously as any airline approaches a 737 or similar aircraft

Murray was always the voice of reason when others in charge at CA were not doing the right thing

Murray did my training 13 years ago and I owe him a debt of gratitude and a prayer

100 1/2 - Start your own thread if you wish to opine about the "bottom" part of this industry and don't screw with this thread any more.

Godspeed Murray.

PIPE

Amen!

oh, and 100 1/2...you might want to check your facts, some of them are wrong.
 
From the news reports it almost sounds like both engines were having issues right after takeoff. Unusual, but it does happen- look at this other recent accident in the AC500:


On June 9, 2008, about 1401 eastern daylight time, an Aero Commander 500S, N501AP, registered to and operated by Gramar 500, Inc., experienced a loss of engine power in both engines and was ditched in the Atlantic Ocean about 1/2 mile south of North Bimini, Bahamas. Visual meteorological conditions prevailed in the area and a visual flight rules flight plan was filed for the 14 Code of Federal Regulations (CFR) Part 91 personal flight from Nassau International Airport (MYNN), Nassau, Bahamas, to Ft. Lauderdale Executive Airport (FXE), Ft. Lauderdale, Florida. The airplane was destroyed due to salt water immersion, and the airline transport rated pilot, the sole occupant, was not injured.
 
I do not care to speculate about the cause of this crash, but dual engine failures in AC500's are usually caused by Jet-A being put in the tanks.
 
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100-1/2 said:
1. Please, Please, Please, Stop crashing airplanes and doing stupid stuff

In my country it's customary to wait until the bodies are cold to spit on them. Prick.

100-1/2 said:
My passion for this industry and those whom comprise it cannot be measured or matched.

uhhhhh, ok Top Gun Carebear!
 
Fact. - The Landing Gear and doors are clearly visible in the extended position under the right nacelle of the above aircraft.

Fact. - Both Flaps are positioned in the full down position in the same aircraft.

I am sure you are aware that these FACTS as you call them are not FACTS at all. In a crash like this, it is very likely that many things moved from their pre 'crash' position. Let's let the NTSB determine where the flaps and gear were before the crash.
 
I'm sure the almighty 100-1/2 is also aware that the flaps in the Commander are hydraulic and will fall to the Down position when system pressure has bled off. Go walk around MKC in the late afternoon when all of the Commanders have been sitting all day...I'm sure you'll see some that way.

You, sir, are one arrogant piece of work. Go crawl back under your rock.

In response to what others have said about Murray- bingo. He was a great guy. He by no means let anyone off easily in training. If you passed Murray's checkride, you were ready. Murray's checkrides were not like other 135 company checkrides where you PASS no matter what. He'd fail you in an instant and re-train you. I remember my training partner had a hard time, and it's because of Murray that he made it through safely. Didn't make it through the first time, but a few weeks later. I'm sure Murray saved his life, and hundreds of other CASW pilots through his talent. He will be missed.
 
100-1/2

Has someone you know ever died in a plane crash? If not you haven't been around very long. If you knew this person would you be carrying on about how stupid, reckless, and irresponsible they were? I bet you would give a great eulogy.

Because of your "passion", I'm sure you will never have mechanical/structural/flight control problems. If you had a dual engine failure shortly after takeoff do you think your "passion" would carry you safely to the ground?:erm:

I too flew for Central Air and received excellent instruction. Murphy was a top notch pilot and far from a cowboy type. I don't know the student, but I have compassion for his family because I too was 24 when I did my initial. Both of their families must be crushed right now.

And lastly, as we all know the media is 100% correct any time they write about aviation.:rolleyes:

Take your own advice: "Knock this crap off guys and gals. You are better than this!" (but then again maybe you are just a d1ck)
 

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