Cathay Career progression

[rhinodriver]

not sure how competitive you would be but... no it's not required.

 

[Airbusdrvr]

The Amount of studying required for a college degree does not compare to the amount of Book time required at CX. If you have 15 days off a month, you better either be in the books a few days or be "reading" company publications when at work. If you don't think you need to study, ask around and see how many pilots have failed the Pre Command Assessment interview.

 

[ballsdeep123]

Which makes sense. Well yes if someone wants that job bad enough looks like they will be studying for quite some time. But its not like aviation takes a rocket scientist to figure out.

 

[rhinodriver]

No rocket surgens or brain scientists here...

But its not like aviation takes a rocket scientist to figure out.

I'm proof of that!

 

[uspilot]

Does anybody know what will new hire SO will be making in 2008. if given a choice which fleet should one take. B747400 or B777 or A340. can someone also talk about SO QOL and Roster every month. Thanks.

 

[Trash8Mofo]

pros and cons

Can someone who has been working at CX for awhile post some of the Pros and Cons as far as they see them?

So far, as reported here:
Pros: Good to Very Good pay, Respected among peers, Repid Gowth opp, Operate in a Region (Asia) with indef expansion and very limited supply of pilots, Good eqq., Internation exp, 15.5% retirment, Housing and education supplimented, (insiders....please add on)

Cons: Training is serious, Studying is Really serious, No reading on Etops (other than FOM etc), Limited control on one's own schedule, age 55-65! (100% worst than 60-65), No real job protection other than the natural forces of supply and demand, Pollution of HK (smogs, high density).....(insiders....please add on, but be fair)


Thanks in advance, its important to know most of the pros and cons to make the proper decision.

 

[j32drivr]

Trash8mofo-
I've been at Cathay around a year and a half, coming from a regional background in the States.
Pros-you've listed most of them. One thing I consider a big pro with CX is over the course of my career I have the opportunity to be based and live almost anywhere I choose. Being based in HK gives one the opportunity to travel to a lot of places that would just be too difficult from here at home, and if based in HK you can take up temporary bases in places like Paris, Rome, etc.
Cons-Don't be afraid of the training machine. Studying IS serious, but it's not difficult. I rarely find it's neccessary to study for anything while one is at home (except for the Pre-Command Assesment). So far, I've found the sim training and recurrent training to be as simple or easier than where I previously came from.
No reading on the flight deck? Yes, that's company policy but I've YET to fly with someone who doesn't carry a magazine or newspaper with them. Of course there's a time and place for everything-flying through the Himalayas might not be the best time to be distracted by the new Maxim. Usually good airmanship prevails. Also, believe it or not, you will find yourself spending a decent amount of time flipping through the FCOMs on the flight deck. Because I fly so infrequently, I find myself thinking "how does that work again?, or what's the procedure for that?" and digging in the books to find the answer. Trust me, on a 10 or 11 hour flight you start wondering things.
The schedule thing-yes, limited control of ones schedule but I actually kind of like it-no spending wasted hours looking through lines or assigning preferences with PBS just to not get what you want anyway! I relax, and on the 15th of the month find out waht I'm doing the following month. Rarely a problem.
Job protection-if you're a normal guy/gal who shows up to work ontime, does your job, and tries to stay on top of things you'll be fine.
ONE real con though-lack of jumpseat here in the states. It takes a little getting used to, but the long run it's worth it; and once you buy a few tickets here and there you'll wonder why you ever bothered nonreving in the first place.
Hope that helps a bit, Cheers

 

[captpetefam]

Jumpseat policy

Obviously I wouln't see why it would change but has there been any talk of allowing CX pilots to join CASS so they could jumpseat?

I want to live in OR someday but CX isn't going to be opening a PDX base anytime soon so then what? Do guys not commute at CX?

CP

 

[rhinodriver]

Actually most guys commute here. They do it on ID 90 tickets and the occasional full fare.

 

[Trash8Mofo]

Do the US based guys.gals have access to the Pass Office in the US, online, or can they only get the passes while they are physically in HK?

 

[subin30]

Is there any bid process for schedule? Can you bid days off? Weekends off? Overnights? etc.

Or do they just throw something on your schedule as they please. Do senior pilots get more days off?

 

[j32drivr]

Regarding the passes, supposedly we can arrange passes here stateside now-there was a Notice To Crew about it sometime back-but I'm not sure how to do it or who to contact. Most guys take care of it in HK.
Bidding- You CAN request certain days off, certain trips, etc, however there is no obligation to award requests. Three times a year we get a set of Garaunteed days off (called Jokers)-a set of 2 days in a row and a set of 5 days in a row-that can be used for things like anniversaries, weddings, birthdays, etc., which 99% of the time are approved. Combine that with 6 weeks vacation per year, and it's not hard to make sure you're off for the really important things. Seniority doesnt make a big difference in the rosters.

 

[Trash8Mofo]

This is a silly question:

Do you get a locker at the airport? and/or do you get picked up and dropped off by the company from your HK residence? I cannot imagine being in my clown suit and bags riding on the MTR to and from work.

related question: for the US based pilots, how long of a layover in HK can be expected on a typical trip pairing? and are there any pairings that would start from the US, HK layover, on to somewhere else, say Europe, then back to HK, and back to US, maybe a 10-day trip?

Thanks again for your time and all the info.

 

[Bjammin]

You get a locker in HKG.

They do not pick you up at your home in HKG, but most guys just wear their uniform without the shoulder boards and name tag on the airport express which is extreamly cheap for Cathay people and very easy for guys that live in Central or Kowloon.

I spend about a 1.5days a trip in HKG. Just enough to party and get some admin stuff done.

Never would go to Europe on a trip starting in the US.

 

[ACT700]

Cal me anal if you wish, but aren't you employed as a pilot - to do your job for 84 hours a month? Too much to ask? If it is, then you really shouldn't consider Cathay at all.

Our FOMs' clearly state that nothing other than "company publications" are to be read on the flight deck. Movies? You have to be kidding. Try watching a movie while you're at the controls and discover how fast CX sacks people.

You're anal!

 

[Dumb Pilot]

You're anal!

You have to admit that watching a movie while you are supposed to be paying attention to what is going on is a little too "Ipodie"

 

[ACT700]

That was a futile attempt at some humor.

I agree, Dumb Pilot, with the movie thing. However, one of the guys alternately having a look through a newspaper or magazine, during a non critical phase of flight, one that happens to last for hooouuuurs on end? Come on.
You can only read so much airplane stuff before the mind goes numb.

 

[OzBushWhacker]

Where do u we find current S/O pay?

 

[AeroDMB]

Does anybody know what will new hire SO will be making in 2008. if given a choice which fleet should one take. B747400 or B777 or A340. can someone also talk about SO QOL and Roster every month. Thanks.

Any info on SO quality of life?

 

[PilotChapin]

You're anal!

He's anal b/c he loves anal.

 

[Mayday911]

Any info on SO quality of life?

Aside from the air quality in Hong Kong, the SO QOL is very good. Little responsibility at work but a sim every other month to maintain "P2X" rating. Good amount of days off to spend traveling around the system or party in Wan Chai.

However, some people seem to think that current SOs will get the shaft due to the hiring of Direct Entry FOs on the bases. The problem is that for every FO hired to the base, there is one less position for a current and senior pilot to have....then again CX doesn't care much about seniority, just ask me and every other current freighter FO who are working 8-10 day trips through ANC and India while DEFOs in YYZ (777), YVR (340), and LAX (777) are making more money than us and will enjoy 4-5 day trips. But I am not bitter. Add to that, who the hell knows what, or where the Dragon Air pilots will be inserted to the list. They are apparently offering Dragon pilots bottom of the list right now to join CX due to the freighter integration, but there is talk of a seniority merge with all Dragon pilots being inserted at the date of acquisition (Sept 2006). Good for those of us here prior to that but bad for everyone who has joined since. This is nothing official yet of course.......

Mayday

 

[It will roll]

Random question but what do SO's log for flight time? Is it SIC, or not loggable? Any SIC type ratings during training? Reason for this question, if one went there and decided it wasn't for him/her, how would all the flight time/experience be accounted for on a resume. Also, any word on Pay for SO's??

Last question. If you have your app in for SO, then after 6 mo-1 year upgrade to CA at your current job, can you switch your app to DEFO without loosing your spot in the pile, or would that push back your hopefull "call?"

Thanks in advance!

 

[OzBushWhacker]

Have a second interview coming up with them. Am highly concerned about the lack of progression for S/O's re: DEFO recruitment.

Anybody know if S/O's can hop on over to be an F/O on the freighter side now that there is integration? I like the amount of hulls on order but this jumping over of S/O's for DEFO's is not a promising sign.

Pity its my only potential offer right now....

 

[Mayday911]

Not 100% but here goes.....

You can bid for a freighter FO opening from the SO position after completing 1 full MOD (continuing training/checking program for SOs). A MOD is, I believe, 1 year after line check....so approx. 1 year and 4 months with the company. Their reasoning behind this is that they traditionally hire lower experienced pilots to the SO position (not always true) and they want to get a good "look" at your training file prior to giving you a window seat.

All this said they can what ever they feel like. If they are short freighter FOs and you bid it right away they may take you up on it.

One seniority list though. SOs start their seniority when they turn up at Adelaide.

FO

 

[Webslinger]

Hey Mayday,
What is the typical upgrade time for a U.S. Freighter FO, and once you upgrade, can you hold a line or position stateside? Or do all Freighter Capt's have to do a HK tour of a year? Just curious?

 

[Mayday911]

To get a specific upgrade window is tough because Cathay does not publish a bid award. They put out a memo and you put your request in via email to the admin lady that is in charge of the numbers. Right now guys seem to be getting assessed (pre command assessment interview) right after 2 years if they want to give it a go. I have been with CX for a little over 1 1/2 years and a guy 2 weeks senior to me has already started his command course.
Almost all freighter positions are outside HK, there are a few guys in HKG that are freighter only pilots but they do not get an expat package as they are employed on "local terms". Almost all guys upgrading are on a base outside HKG.

Line v. Reserve....the company can, by that flimsy contract we all signed, sit pilots on 1 1/2 hour reserve callout, but they have yet to do it to me or anyone else that I know of that is based outside HKG. I do sometimes get a 4 hour reserve block when in HKG. You all get your line of flying handed to you on the 15th of every month and that may include some "A" days. That means you are available and if called they have to give you a minimum of 10 hours to report for duty.

 

[druglord]

yes you can switch application for SO to FO, just ask them. I did and they said 'yes'. Also heard of a guy that was told he was now going to be hired as FO though his 2nd interview was SO interview

 

[Cpt. Underpants]

Roll. in answer to your question, S/O rating is the "P2X" rating, not recognised by the FAA as a rating as it involves no base training (bounces) and minimal line training - the S/O is a cruise relief pilot only, no handling of the aircraft in any state other than cruise. As such, it is not "loggable" time other than credit towards a licence upgrade - like our cadets need to go from COM to ATPL etc. In a nutshell, worthless rating, worthless time (for an S/O).

Druglord, the "switch" from S/O to F/O for some candidates is because CX are desperate to fill North American freighter slots. Their ability to attract and retain many Americans is poor, as many see the QOL here in HKG as sub-standard. The novelty for many, wears off after a year or two, especially with that valuable B744 type rating...(I'm talking F/O here, of course).

 

[Dieterly]

Remember, FAA doesn't require you to be "rated" on an aircraft to be able to log the time. I think it's safe to say that the majority of US, Part 121 FO's do not have a typerating on the A/C they are flying.

 

[Cpt. Underpants]

CX policy states that "half the time physically at the controls may be logged towards a licence upgrade".

As the s/o typically spends somewhat less than half the flight time on duty, I interpret that to mean my s/o's are being credited one in four on flight time, or about 4 hours credit AS CRUISE RELIEF, not PIC, RPIC or P1US on a typical LAX-HKG.

IMHO to claim it as anything else to the FAA or potential employer is dishonest and fraudulent.

RPIC = Relief Pilot In Charge (A CX thing)
P1US = PF Under Supervision (A HKCAD thing)