Captains who don't respect their F/O's

[Flyerdan]

I saw this thread on another forum and thought it would be interesting to see how it plays out here.

 

[ParrotheadGTI]

can't stand them.

 

[Max Q]

How about FO's that don't respect themselves?

*raises hand... and then cuts it*

-Brett

 

[SLOTH]

What about the other side of the coin? FO's who think they are in charge! Respect is a two-way street and is something that is earned.

 

[Stifler's Mom]

I love these threads. Always high marks on the laugh meter.

:beer:

Everybody back to their corners and come out swinging.

 

[BrickTop]

If the "sense of entitlement" these young FO's feel they've earned by warming the right seat of an RJ while walking through the airport terminal with their sunglasses on their head were any less apparent, perhaps earning their Captains respect, let alone their employer's, might prove less challenging. Honestly I think most FO's today are arrogant, cocky and lack enough experience and knowledge to earn any respect at all. Treat this like a career not a position exploited for social status. Its not that difficult of a job to have such self praise anyways.

 

[captainv]

Plenty of morons in both seats. Just like there are plenty of pilots who just show up, fly, try to have a good time and go home.

Next topic: NYC controllers who sound grumpy. Discuss.

 

[Metro752]

Don't forget your false teeth on the nightstand again, Wilbur!

 

[WalterSobchak]

Hair gel, iPod, backpacks, etc.

Just wanted to get those old standbys outta the way real fast.

 

[Flyerdan]

What about the other side of the coin? FO's who think they are in charge! Respect is a two-way street and is something that is earned.

That sounds fair enough. Do you have any examples of behavior of FO's who think they are in charge? I would think that the captain could straighten that out with just a short discussion. It may be as simple as an FO being used to flying with some captains that expect them to do some things without being asked and then flying with other captains that feel their authority is being usurped if the FO doesn't ask first. Just a thought.

 

[Flyerdan]

If the "sense of entitlement" these young FO's feel they've earned by warming the right seat of an RJ while walking through the airport terminal with their sunglasses on their head were any less apparent, perhaps earning their Captains respect, let alone their employer's, might prove less challenging. Honestly I think most FO's today are arrogant, cocky and lack enough experience and knowledge to earn any respect at all. Treat this like a career not a position exploited for social status. Its not that difficult of a job to have such self praise anyways.

WOW - that is a broad statement and I hope it isn't true. You sound pretty jaded to me. I hope people like yourself manage to suck it up and mentor your FO's because like it or not, they are our future Captains.

 

[Max Q]

How about the time I was flying and working the radios as my captain was talking to dispatch while on downwind for a CAT II. I fealt pretty in charge there. :laugh:

-Brett

 

[luvz2fli]

How about the time I was flying and working the radios as my captain was talking to dispatch while on downwind for a CAT II. I fealt pretty in charge there. :laugh:

-Brett

You mean using the autopilot and talking on the radios? Sounds rough. How did you survive it?

 

[Flyerdan]

How about the time I was flying and working the radios as my captain was talking to dispatch while on downwind for a CAT II. I fealt pretty in charge there. :laugh:

-Brett

See there, it sounds like you had your Captains complete confidence. And hopefully the conversation with dispatch wasn't about how you really could have used an alternate and more fuel because it wasn't looking too good for a successful CAT II that day.

 

[SLOTH]

That sounds fair enough. Do you have any examples of behavior of FO's who think they are in charge? I would think that the captain could straighten that out with just a short discussion. It may be as simple as an FO being used to flying with some captains that expect them to do some things without being asked and then flying with other captains that feel their authority is being usurped if the FO doesn't ask first. Just a thought.

Fair enough and very true. I'm all for FO's that can take charge when asked, but to usurp the captain's authority when it isn't warranted or needed is going to get some feathers ruffled. A short discussion will most certainly straighten out most of the problems (real or perceived). If the safety of the flight is not in question, the FO needs to stand down. If the captain is unable to make a decision that may affect the crew and/or passengers, than maybe at that time the FO can persuade the captain to make a decision. In the end it is all about team work and it can break down from both ends.

 

[Mike man]

How about the time I was flying and working the radios as my captain was talking to dispatch while on downwind for a CAT II. I fealt pretty in charge there. :laugh:

Wow a pilot who can talk and fly...were you listening to you ipod too? Who cares...exactly.

 

[Flyerdan]

Fair enough and very true. I'm all for FO's that can take charge when asked, but to usurp the captain's authority when it isn't warranted or needed is going to get some feathers ruffled. A short discussion will most certainly straighten out most of the problems (real or perceived). If the safety of the flight is not in question, the FO needs to stand down. If the captain is unable to make a decision that may affect the crew and/or passengers, than maybe at that time the FO can persuade the captain to make a decision. In the end it is all about team work and it can break down from both ends.

Seems reasonable to me.

I hear about the new FO's not respecting the Captains' authority and I think that is just a matter of inexperience and immaturity. I wonder more about the other end of the spectrum. Where the career FO has chosen to remain an FO for QOL reasons. Does this create issues for junior Captains? It would seem that someone who has been an FO for years at the same domicile flying the same routes would be more likely to be guilty of usurping a Captains authority than a brand new FO.

 

[fullforward]

The first officer's attitude goes a LONG way with me. Even if the guy is brand new I can still respect him and his opinions if he has a good attitude. I don't care how senior the FO is, if he sits over there with a piss poor attitude then you're gonna get what's coming to ya.

 

[BayAreaCFI]

If the "sense of entitlement" these young FO's feel they've earned by warming the right seat of an RJ while walking through the airport terminal with their sunglasses on their head were any less apparent, perhaps earning their Captains respect, let alone their employer's, might prove less challenging. Honestly I think most FO's today are arrogant, cocky and lack enough experience and knowledge to earn any respect at all. Treat this like a career not a position exploited for social status. Its not that difficult of a job to have such self praise anyways.

I love how having sunglasses on your head automatically means that you are cocky arrogant and have no knowledge. I see senior captains walk through the airport that are overweight, wrinkled shirt and a 20 year old bag but that does not mean i automatically lose respect for him. Since when did people get so bent out of shape with the whole sunglasses thing. I think the people worrying about other peoples choice of where to put their eyewear should spend more worrying about themselves. Who the F**k cares for cryin out loud!!!

 

[Max Q]

Wow a pilot who can talk and fly...were you listening to you ipod too? Who cares...exactly.

Actually, I was listening to i iPod. Who cares, exactly?

 

[waveflyer]

most pilots who have trouble w/ uppity FO's are really not that good- they just happen to be captains and not in a position to receive too many critiques. Someone told me this a long time ago- you have a "problem" FO now and then, ok- but if you're having them a lot- you're the problem. if you're a good leader- part of that is sizing up your FO -and getting the best out of them.

I will also say- that it is a good system where we are students, then instructors- then FO's, and Captains- then FO's again... it really is important to keep this gig in perspective. It's tough that those captains at "regionals" who choose to stay there might have upgraded quickly- and have never moved on and had the pleasure of pulling gear again- i've run across many that are fantastic- but others who've obviously forgot what it was like to be the chameleon. (Happens at the majors too, depending on what part of the hiring wave you get in on)

Just the attitude of "FO needs to stand down" doesn't seem like good leadership or advocacy. The idea is to teach them to be captains... which doesn't mean- "look at me, one day do like i do now"- it's more like- size them up- and give them captain tasks that they can handle-(which might mean *gasp!* you might have to take over some walk-arounds and FO tasks) and let the situations teach- especially as they get more experience or closer to upgrade.

FO's too- if you're good- there are few that you can't win over- the only problem is if you're real sensitive in the Ego area...

 

[Kip Dynomite]

I have always been an Assh-le FO, and would be one forever(because it's fun), but THEY have made me upgrade. So now i'm a sensitive captain. Hopefully the flight attendents won't read my post cause I'll cry...then it'll be my turn to wipe down the lav.

 

[BLing]

The best CA's I have flown with are one of two types:

1. One who views FO's as future CA's and puts them into a leadership position from the right seat.

2. Piece of crap CA who cant do anything right who indirectly forces the FO to step into a leadership position.

I have learned the most from both types... My upgrade is just around the corner (pending contract negotiations...) and I choose to be CA #1.

As for the CA's who give no respect to their FO's... From my experience, They suck as pilots and people in general! They are afraid of flying and deep down lack the confidence to do the job. So they put up a front by bashing others. Ive done my research on the few that I've had... They are all company/training department nightmares...

 

[Kip Dynomite]

To the above…You my man, (or woman, I’m not sexist. He might not be a man, women wear bling too) need to be a psychologist. School is expensive…take out a loan. From experience I can tell you FO pay can’t pay for groceries and school. I lived in a basement for 3 years (yes, it was owned by my mom).

 

[No.W.]

Only trouble I've had is really senior FO's. It's not that they don't know more about the specific area they are flying in(usually this occurs in the smaller western bases)...they do. I utilize that knowledge. The problem is when I ask them for advice about a given item and they assume they now have command and sort of "take over". This has only happened a couple of times. Other than that...I've not had one problem with my FOs; even when they wear sunglasses on their head or have spiked and gelled hair.

 

[Metro752]

The best CA's I have flown with are one of two types:

1. One who views FO's as future CA's and puts them into a leadership position from the right seat.

2. Piece of crap CA who cant do anything right who indirectly forces the FO to step into a leadership position.

I have learned the most from both types... My upgrade is just around the corner (pending contract negotiations...) and I choose to be CA #1.

As for the CA's who give no respect to their FO's... From my experience, They suck as pilots and people in general! They are afraid of flying and deep down lack the confidence to do the job. So they put up a front by bashing others. Ive done my research on the few that I've had... They are all company/training department nightmares...

With you 100%! Morons who fly the airplane the way they somehow reason, is safer than how the company says to fly it, and their method is actually unsafe, and much worse. Cowboy captains as well. Not just jerks, real cowboy wannabes.

 

[BrickTop]

I love how having sunglasses on your head automatically means that you are cocky arrogant and have no knowledge. I see senior captains walk through the airport that are overweight, wrinkled shirt and a 20 year old bag but that does not mean i automatically lose respect for him. Since when did people get so bent out of shape with the whole sunglasses thing. I think the people worrying about other peoples choice of where to put their eyewear should spend more worrying about themselves. Who the F**k cares for cryin out loud!!!

I will not discount the lack of attitude on the left side either to be unbiased. Its a problem across the board with this generation of pilots. Attitude is everything regarding. The lack of care of the uniform by a senior CPT is as distastelful as the sunglasses on any ranked employee.

 

[waveflyer]

Only trouble I've had is really senior FO's. It's not that they don't know more about the specific area they are flying in(usually this occurs in the smaller western bases)...they do. I utilize that knowledge. The problem is when I ask them for advice about a given item and they assume they now have command and sort of "take over". This has only happened a couple of times. Other than that...I've not had one problem with my FOs; even when they wear sunglasses on their head or have spiked and gelled hair.

That's one of the subtleties- how to get experience w/o letting them take over.

 

[Snapperhead]

I see senior captains walk through the airport that are overweight, wrinkled shirt and a 20 year old bag but that does not mean i automatically lose respect for him. /quote]

I thought the goal was to keep the brain bag as long as possible. Mine has lasted me 8 years now, and I hope I never have to buy a new one. Sorry to hijack the thread.

 

[Flyer1015]

This thread is hilarious, keep 'em coming!