can we totally blame de-regulation

[Linedriver]

The problem with our current lifestyle/compensations is the unions. It is...

When fuel commodity increases in cost the airlines find a way to pay for it because they won't be going anywhere without it. Same thing for the airframes. The airline doesn't get a break on these costs just because times get lean, they raise fares, charge for bags, they make a way to make it happen. But when it comes to the pilot group, our unions put us on sale to save the airline. The airline will break a contract to get lower wages but when times get better they won't do anything until contract time. And then it's a pittance to what was given up.

I think a unionized voice is a good thing but ALPA has become an entity to justify its own existence. Do you know what DAL/NWA pay in dues annually? Around $25 million! I don't know about you but I don't need to pay someone to compromise my own compensation package. Do you? I think we can do a better job by taking the union in house and representing ourselves.

When our union decides to set a different standard for the pilot group things may start to improve. Until then the airline will continue to see the pilots as a flexible cost and compensation will continue to be compromised.

There are three things that make an airplane fly. The airplane, fuel in the airplane and pilots to fly the airplane. Two of those costs are fixed. When our union quits putting us on sale things will get better.

That's my opinion.

 

[Mamma]

I would venture to say a combination of events evolved the modern airline industry. It worked great for some people and companies and not so well for others. SWA is doing great but TWA went down the tubes for example.

Internet. Ability to buy from multiple places competing for business. Showing the lowest ticket price out there and getting travel agents out of the airline ticket selling business. This really caused airlines to fight hard for marketshare by going as low as possible on the tickets...to the point of losing money on the route just to keep it. Those with high overhead costs had to adapt. Jetblue and Southwest were eating the legacies lunch. Since corporate raiders laid waste to many an airline, labor was the only place to go to realize the savings needed.

LCCs and Ultra LCCs flying one type of aircraft, point to point, no frills and very cheap tickets flooded the market with seats.

Loss of Scope. Huge killer.

Bankruptcy laws that favor Management over Labor.

Out-dating of the hub and spoke system.

HUGE numbers of people wanted to be pilots and flooded the market driving down what we are worth. Supply and demand.

ATA and Airline Industrial Labor Council.

Weak and spineless ALPA leadership.

Loss of flight engineers.

Can anyone think of more.....

 

[Newjetjockey]

List of airline strikes under the NMB. Notice any trends?
http://www.nmb.gov/publicinfo/airline-strikes.html

 

[pilotyip]

List of airline strikes under the NMB. Notice any trends?
http://www.nmb.gov/publicinfo/airline-strikes.html

a lot of them are out of business? Is that the trend we were looking for?

 

[inline]

Embraier and Bombardier are also highly subsidized. Just wait until there's a 737-900 sized jungle jet........................

 

[inline]

Life was good for a few pilots under regulation. There are probably 4-5 times as many pilot’s jobs now as there was in 1977. Back in reg time it was about 90% military that went to the majors. Dereg opened up a lot of airline job to non-military pilots. To return to regulation would raise ticket prices, reduce the number of passengers, and therefore reduce the number of pilots needed. Re-reg would be good for a few senior pilots not so good for everyone else.

Well said

 

[Regul8r]

Life was good for a few pilots under regulation. There are probably 4-5 times as many pilot’s jobs now as there was in 1977. Back in reg time it was about 90% military that went to the majors. Dereg opened up a lot of airline job to non-military pilots. To return to regulation would raise ticket prices, reduce the number of passengers, and therefore reduce the number of pilots needed. Re-reg would be good for a few senior pilots not so good for everyone else.

YIP, you speak as if we are entitled to flying jobs just because we're pilots. The fact of the matter is that while there are more flying jobs available today, the pay has come down considerably. Couple that with job instability and all you've done is spread the misery around. Why not leave your position at USA and go take the right seat in an RJ if you love flying so much? They'll give you all the flying you can handle, and then some!

 

[pilotyip]

YIP, you speak as if we are entitled to flying jobs just because we're pilots. The fact of the matter is that while there are more flying jobs available today, the pay has come down considerably. Couple that with job instability and all you've done is spread the misery around. Why not leave your position at USA and go take the right seat in an RJ if you love flying so much? They'll give you all the flying you can handle, and then some!

too old they would not take me, not saying that it is a bad career, 11 jobs in 33 years, and it has been a ball, coming into retirement in good shape, life is good

 

[Kalifornia]

Pilotyip is still the master tool and the safety demon. He would cower in front of any friends and family of air crash victims' families with his absolute market based decision making. TCAS, will that raise ticket prices? EPGWS, will that raise ticket prices? Pilot make a professional decision on logistics of specific MEL, will that raise ticket prices? Mandatory maintenance inspections, will that raise ticket prices? Colgan airlines having to treat the pilots better, will that raise ticket prices? Minimum rest requirements, will that raise ticket prices? Professional liability based wages, will that raise ticket prices. You and your type are POS to aviation safety.

 

[pilotyip]

Pilotyip is still the master tool and the safety demon. He would cower in front of any friends and family of air crash victims' families with his absolute market based decision making. TCAS, will that raise ticket prices? EPGWS, will that raise ticket prices? Pilot make a professional decision on logistics of specific MEL, will that raise ticket prices? Mandatory maintenance inspections, will that raise ticket prices? Colgan airlines having to treat the pilots better, will that raise ticket prices? Minimum rest requirements, will that raise ticket prices? Professional liability based wages, will that raise ticket prices. You and your type are POS to aviation safety.

Good to see you again, I thought maybe you had tired of following me around. Looks like you still care. I am blessed, everything you mention is an imposed regulation, equally imposed on all operators, it rasies tickets prices equally, much like the increase in fuel prices. These will effect the market, less people will ride airplanes because they chose an alternate means of moving more point A to point B. I.e. the layoffs as a result of decreased ridership during hte peak oil of 2008. All airlines face these equally, but when an individual airline elects to place themselves above the market price they then face competition from lower cost air carrier, they will loose ridership. Real simple stuff, Adam Smith figured it out 230 years ago, still applies. I am humbled to be in your presence, you the only true source of any knowledge of the airline industry, best of luck