Can Someone Shed More Light Here?

[HighSpeedClimb]

I have no thought one way or another, just curious how Airwise got this story and if it has any merit.


Romney Accused of Airline Union Busting
August 16, 2012
An airline controlled by Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney's Bain Capital ran an illegal campaign to suppress a pilots' union, according to a Financial Times report.

The report quotes US court and federal agency documents which, it said, reveal the unlawful union suppression at Key Airlines in the 1980s.

The newspaper said that Romney and two associates broke the law by their treatment of two pilots who who were dismissed from the company after trying to organize a union.

Bain Capital went on to sell Key Airlines at a large profit two months after a union vote failed according to the FT report.

The report quotes federal judge Roger Foley as writing in 1992: "The anti-union activities in this case are not merely unfair labor practices as Key argues, but blatant, grievous, willful, deliberate and repeated violations of the Railway Labour Act."

Key Airlines was a small charter airline with a contract to ferry personnel to military bases in the Nevada desert.

Airwise

 

[PCL_128]

Yep, it's true. Full story at the Financial Times: http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/3a5dc3ce-e7b0-11e1-95e1-00144feab49a.html

 

[waveflyer]

Is anybody really surprised?

It's the pilot political problem- we don't vote for democrats, and republicans don't believe in us.

 

[UALjan15]

Is anybody really surprised?

It's the pilot political problem- we don't vote for democrats, and republicans don't believe in us.

"We" certainly does not mean "me!"

 

[DCAA320]

Pilots who vote republican are f u c k i n g morons. We are labor.

 

[aveator]

If you really think that Obama really gives two ********************s about you, me, your union, my union, well then you are the f-ing moron. When the day is done, all's either side cares about is MONEY and your vote. Once they get that, you're a fart in the breeze.

 

[DCAA320]

If you really think that Obama really gives two ********************s about you, me, your union, my union, well then you are the f-ing moron. When the day is done, all's either side cares about is MONEY and your vote. Once they get that, you're a fart in the breeze.

Didn't say Obama did, but the republicans really don't.

 

[SplitBar]

Pilots who vote republican are f u c k i n g morons. We are labor.

Labor / middle class voting republican is like chickens lining up to vote for Colonel Sanders.

 

[DCAA320]

Labor / middle class voting republican is like chickens lining up to vote for Colonel Sanders.

Where is that LIKE button

 

[SWA Bubba]

Pilots who vote republican are f u c k i n g morons. We are labor.

And dumbasses who make such ignorant sweeping generalizations are even BIGGER f'ing morons. Ya' know what I mean?

People vote for candidates that they believe will do the most for them (or at least do them the least harm). You buy that? It seems to be what you're espousing with your "we are labor" rant.

People who make a lot of money and believe it's a result of their hard work (and years of qualifications) generally don't want to increase their taxes, especially when they see them going to things they don't believe in. That goes double for things they see as just pure and simple "wealth redistribution." The president has already promised to raise my taxes specifically, as I fit into his twisted definition of "millionaires and billionaires." Apparently I'm not yet paying my "fair" share, in his opinion. That's also true for every SWA captain who works a more than the minimum, and not just a few of our FOs. His "Affordable Care Act" additionally includes a buttload of new taxes over the next few years, most of which affect the majority of all Americans--and I guaran-damn-tee you, every friggin' pilot in the US--not just us "millionaires and billionaires," who'll additionally get to pay more tax on ordinary income. The catch is, they're just hidden. The media doesn't talk about it.

You seem to prefer Democrats because you think that, as a good union guy, they've got your back. Well, guess again. While it IS true that you're "labor," I hate to be the one to break it to you that all "labor" is not created equal. You're the kind of labor that the left doesn't really care about, other than to tax you. Do you really not see that? Our labor group is too small, and we make too much money, for any politician to lift a finger for our benefit. I'd bet that the majority of airline pilots who vote conservative do so because they believe that whatever miniscule benefit a left-wing president could possibly provide to any airline union, is vastly overshadowed by the negatives: certain tax increases, increased regulation and bureaocrracy, and a more socialized economy in general, none of which we especially want.

Anyway, THAT's why many pilots tend to vote Republican--not because they're morons, but because they make reasoned decisions based on pros and cons. In my opinion, blindly voting Democratic simply because "you're labor" is the moronic move here.

But hey, at least you're an idealistic moron. Good for you.

Bubba

 

[CE750Driver]

Labor / middle class voting republican is like chickens lining up to vote for Colonel Sanders.

Labor/middle class voting for Democrats is like the Turkeys that have been engineered with so much breast meat, they cant walk. As long as the Farmer feeds them, it works. As soon as the Farmer is gone, they die.

I would much rather watch Colonel Sanders walk away, and be able to live in the wild, than be dependant on Farmer Obama. Either way, you are going to die in the end. I just don't want to be dependant on someone, like you do.

imp:

 

[Quimby]

Aveator & SWA Bubba get it.

 

[waveflyer]

bubba,
Is swa a better place to work bc Herb's a democrat?

I love when swa pilots enjoy a company that espouses caring about people, sharing profits, and creating a hard working luving company instead of paycuts and disproportionate bonuses take those ethics for granted.
There are a lot of republicans you could have chosen to work for.
Why did you choose Herb's 'socialist' agenda to dedicate your career to?

 

[Old School 737]

Back to the original poster.. Reading another article about this it sounds like Bain Cap did something illegal.... In relation to the union drive..And fired pilots over it. These appear to be the facts ..

 

[rattler]

Pilots who vote republican are f u c k i n g morons. We are labor.

Really? Blindly following any political party is moronic.

I would argue that pilots that put all their eggs in one basket and have no secondary income stream are f u c k i n g morons. Judging by your juvenile statement, you are counting on your airlines paycheck and retirement.

I could care less about my airline job, I am more interested in the state of my country and my small buisness. Obama is not going to save this industry, so plan accordingly. BTW, I voted Republican in the primary (Ron Paul), but will vote Libertarian (Gary Johnson) in the General Election. Obama and Romney are equally very bad for this profession, our country and the economy.

 

[jonjuan]

bubba,
Is swa a better place to work bc Herb's a democrat?

I love when swa pilots enjoy a company that espouses caring about people, sharing profits, and creating a hard working luving company instead of paycuts and disproportionate bonuses take those ethics for granted.
There are a lot of republicans you could have chosen to work for.
Why did you choose Herb's 'socialist' agenda to dedicate your career to?

Sorry, but u don't work for herb.

 

[SWA Bubba]

bubba,
Is swa a better place to work bc Herb's a democrat?

I love when swa pilots enjoy a company that espouses caring about people, sharing profits, and creating a hard working luving company instead of paycuts and disproportionate bonuses take those ethics for granted.
There are a lot of republicans you could have chosen to work for.
Why did you choose Herb's 'socialist' agenda to dedicate your career to?

SWA is a great place to work, NOT because "Herb's a democrat," but because Herb is a compassionate visionary (and unique business genius) who created a unique company in our industry. He did what he did because of who he is, not who he voted for. Your argument seems to be, since "Herb's a democrat," then we should also vote for democrats. To that I could respond, well Lincoln (a much bigger and more important visionary than Herb) was a republican, so we should vote for republicans. The bottom line is, I don't vote for anyone because of who someone else voted for, and I recommend that nobody else should do that either.

And besides, as you know, there's a world of difference between President Obama and Herb Kelleher (just as there's a world of difference between your average republican-voting pilot, and a right-wing extremist). Herb's "socialist agenda" doesn't include taxing and regulating every aspect of our lives, recklessly spending money he doesn't have, and promoting government policies that stifle business and innovation. President Obama's "socialist agenda" does exactly that. Herb in his day, was the ultimate capitaist innovator; President Obama these days, seems to think that capitalism is a dirty word.

You know, you keep touting the whole "Herb's a democrat" thing to throw at Southwest pilots who disagree with your world view. But the truth of the matter is, that while Herb might be liberally socially, he is incredibly conservative fiscally. That, my friend is a very good thing. If Herb had run this airline the way President Obama is trying to run the economy, Southwest Airlines would have been bankrupt and gone long ago.

Bubba

 

[t-bone]

But the truth of the matter is, that while Herb might be liberally socially, he is incredibly conservative fiscally. That, my friend is a very good thing.

Bubba

I only wish we had a presidential candidate that fit this description. Doesn't it feel that a socially conservative POTUS can have just as much impact on ones life as a fiscally liberal? Albeit in different avenues of life, but intrusive none the less. Stay out of my wallet, and stay out of my house.

I work for a TPG-company, and I see little difference between TPG and Bain Capital...but I see that changes that have been made under our new ownership. Yes I'm incredibly thankful to have a company that is still in business and that I'm still gainfully employed, but that does not mean it has been all fun and games.

 

[dicko]

SWA is a great place to work, NOT because "Herb's a democrat," but because Herb is a compassionate visionary (and unique business genius) who created a unique company in our industry. He did what he did because of who he is, not who he voted for. Your argument seems to be, since "Herb's a democrat," then we should also vote for democrats. To that I could respond, well Lincoln (a much bigger and more important visionary than Herb) was a republican, so we should vote for republicans. The bottom line is, I don't vote for anyone because of who someone else voted for, and I recommend that nobody else should do that either.

And besides, as you know, there's a world of difference between President Obama and Herb Kelleher (just as there's a world of difference between your average republican-voting pilot, and a right-wing extremist). Herb's "socialist agenda" doesn't include taxing and regulating every aspect of our lives, recklessly spending money he doesn't have, and promoting government policies that stifle business and innovation. President Obama's "socialist agenda" does exactly that. Herb in his day, was the ultimate capitaist innovator; President Obama these days, seems to think that capitalism is a dirty word.

You know, you keep touting the whole "Herb's a democrat" thing to throw at Southwest pilots who disagree with your world view. But the truth of the matter is, that while Herb might be liberally socially, he is incredibly conservative fiscally. That, my friend is a very good thing. If Herb had run this airline the way President Obama is trying to run the economy, Southwest Airlines would have been bankrupt and gone long ago.

Bubba

You're still gonna vote for a guy - that's been shown in a US court to have engaged in illegal union busting activities. Firing pilots in order to sell a company.

You're still gonna vote for him aren't you ? Bubba.

 

[easydoesit]

Bottom line. The deficit under Obama has been increased MORE than during all of the other presidents terms COMBINED. You just can't teach stupid.

 

[dicko]

Bottom line. The deficit under Obama has been increased MORE than during all of the other presidents terms COMBINED. You just can't teach stupid.

Picture Romney running the show for the last term......

He is the living, breathing representation of every single one of the investment banks and Hedge Funds that helped us into this deficit. You're inviting the candy thief to guard the candy store.

 

[SWA Bubba]

Doesn't it feel that a socially conservative POTUS can have just as much impact on ones life as a fiscally liberal? Albeit in different avenues of life, but intrusive none the less.

Not as much of an impact in my life. In my opinion, the negatives of a liberal government FAR outweigh the negatives of a conservative government (while there are obviously positives and negatives to both). I personally don't have a problem with gay marriages, women's choices, etc. (those and other sterotypical "liberal" causes). And if a conservative politician doesn't agree with me on these issues, it doesn't affect me to the same degree. I.e. I'm not gay, and I'm past the age where couples normally reproduce. However, left-leaning economic policies and liberal ideas of how best to appropriate my money DO affect me greatly (as well as every other American, for that matter). Therefore, in my opinion, liberal politicians can do much more damage than conservative ones could.

And I agree with you, in that I wish we had such a candidate (liberal socially while conservative fiscally), because that's what -I- believe in personally. Much to Wave's chagrin, I'd bet that Herb would unhesitatingly vote for such a candidate. And until such a candidate appears--which will probably be never with the way our system works--I'll continue to vote for candidates whose overall package does the most good, and (even more importantly) the least bad, for me and the country. Regardless of which party that person claims.

Bubba

 

[SWA Bubba]

You're still gonna vote for a guy - that's been shown in a US court to have engaged in illegal union busting activities. Firing pilots in order to sell a company.

You're still gonna vote for him aren't you ? Bubba.

Dude, so far, I've only heard this from this forum and a single link that wouldn't come up on my computer. Not exactly the last word. If this is such a big story, how come it isn't on MSNBC (a left-leaning organization that would love to see Obama reelected if there ever was one)? And are you really trying to invite people to list all the possible connections President Obama has with individuals and entities tied to illegality? That would take a long time.

Bubba

 

[t-bone]

Not as much of an impact in my life. In my opinion, the negatives of a liberal government FAR outweigh the negatives of a conservative government (while there are obviously positives and negatives to both). I personally don't have a problem with gay marriages, women's choices, etc. (those and other sterotypical "liberal" causes). And if a conservative politician doesn't agree with me on these issues, it doesn't affect me to the same degree. I.e. I'm not gay, and I'm past the age where couples normally reproduce. However, left-leaning economic policies and liberal ideas of how best to appropriate my money DO affect me greatly (as well as every other American, for that matter). Therefore, in my opinion, liberal politicians can do much more damage than conservative ones could.

And I agree with you, in that I wish we had such a candidate (liberal socially while conservative fiscally), because that's what -I- believe in personally. Much to Wave's chagrin, I'd bet that Herb would unhesitatingly vote for such a candidate. And until such a candidate appears--which will probably be never with the way our system works--I'll continue to vote for candidates whose overall package does the most good, and (even more importantly) the least bad, for me and the country. Regardless of which party that person claims.

Bubba

I certainly can agree with you on that...monetary policy affects me more so than most of the liberal causes. But matters such as stem cell research could easily affect us all the minute we get sick with a disease that could have been cured had more money been devoted to research. That's just one example.

Now if SWA would ever call, we could continue this conversation over beers in LBB!

T-bone

 

[densoo]

People who make a lot of money and believe it's a result of their hard work (and years of qualifications) generally don't want to increase their taxes, especially when they see them going to things they don't believe in.

Regardless of one's politics, a lot more pilots will pay zero taxes under Romney because they won't have an income. Their job will have been outsourced from below to regionals and from above to joint venture.

 

[SWA717]

Picture Romney running the show for the last term......

He is the living, breathing representation of every single one of the investment banks and Hedge Funds that helped us into this deficit. You're inviting the candy thief to guard the candy store.

Oh please save us King Obama! Before they put us all in shackles. Boo hoo hoo!

 

[SWA Bubba]

Regardless of one's politics, a lot more pilots will pay zero taxes under Romney because they won't have an income. Their job will have been outsourced from below to regionals and from above to joint venture.

That's the best you got? Really? Do you know how much of President Obama's taxpayer "stimulus" money went overseas? Or to companies run by his donor cronies that are now bankrupt and out of business, that produced exactly nothing? Bain Capital, while not infallible, has a proven record of investing private capital and saving dozens of private compainies, and saving literally tens of thousands of private sector American jobs.

And why is it you think that raising taxes on everyone, including small businesses, and slapping on more regulations and layers of government bureauocracy is going to keep companies from outsourcing? It sounds more like incentive to outsource. The government cannot force a private company to not outsource any more than it can dictate how much it pays its officers. Those are the two main problems you guys keep harping on, right? How is raising taxes on individuals and small businesses (not to mention spending taxpayer money like it's going out of style) going to address those issues? That's an honest question, Densoo. Or Dicko, or anyone else, for that matter. How does that help? What is, or for that matter can, President Obama do to fix those particular "ills"? I'll tell you one thing--the way to fix problems with capitalism is NOT to slap socialism on top of it. But that seems to be the current administration's solution to just about everything.

Bubba

 

[PCL_128]

Picture Romney running the show for the last term......

He is the living, breathing representation of every single one of the investment banks and Hedge Funds that helped us into this deficit. You're inviting the candy thief to guard the candy store.

Damn, I hate it when I agree with you.

 

[PCL_128]

just as there's a world of difference between your average republican-voting pilot, and a right-wing extremist

Not that I've seen.

 

[SWA Bubba]

Not that I've seen.

Riiiiight. It's stupid comments like that that justify people also lumping all left-wingers in the same pile. I guess being a good liberal, you 'believe' that all of us Americans should just give all of our money to the government to dole back out to us (and others) as they see fit to do so, or rather if they see fit. Just like, as a good right-winger, the average pilot 'believes' that God has chosen white male Americans to lead the world in its righteous path. (Uh, that's all sarcasm, by the way.)

You are actually pretending that there's no difference? You really don't believe that someone can go along with liberal social causes, but not with liberal economic ideas? Really? You know, PCL, I have often disagreed with you, but it seems like you used to at least try to be reasonable and civil. I suppose those days are over.

Bubba