Can someone explain the national seniority list?

[PCL_128]

National seniority is a pipe dream. What we need is national longevity. You would have to offer tax credits or some other incentive for the airlines to hire people with greater longevity but if done right it could work. They passed age 65 to benefit a few how hard would it be to pass legislation that benefits everyone?

Are you kidding? Tax credits? Better vote for Obama if you want any sort of tax credits meant to benefit air line pilots. McCain would give them tax credits for firing all of us and replacing us with computers.

 

[ifly4u]

Are you kidding? Tax credits? Better vote for Obama if you want any sort of tax credits meant to benefit air line pilots. McCain would give them tax credits for firing all of us and replacing us with computers.

You have to think like a politician. First you scare the public with news stories about inexperienced underqualified pilots at the airlines, then you float national longevity as the "solution" to this problem. Sell it to the public as a safety initiative and voila. Use lots of buzzwords like "discrimination" and "fair treatment". They did it with age 65 so why not?

 

[Wheres the van?]

National seniority,that dog dont hunt.National seat (ie this is how much a 737 driver costs),that would add a whole lot of stability to what we do,we in effect become a cost of doing business just like that good old barrel of oil no ifs ands or buts.
Miami Air 737 CA $200ph,Southwest 737 CA $200ph.Its that easy,the problem is most pilots are as dumb as a bag of hammers,even though they relish the concept of a 40 year career they will sell there first born for a perceived short term gain,some will even come on this board and sound the merits of a politician who has conspired to undermine our profession even further,like I said dumb as a bag of hammers.If you want a definition of madness keep doing the same thing over and over again and expect a different result.Salute Brutai!

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

The real problem with a NSL is many ..too many pilots think that it is possible and probable.. They blame unions for not making it happen and with draw their support because of it....

Nothing worse than a group of pilots who pack up their marbles and go home all because someone else won't make an unworkable problem reality...

 

[GogglesPisano]

I agree with "Where's the Van."

A true union would have standard pay scales for all aircraft. You want a 737 CA? He costs $200/hr.

This "Loose affiliation of locals" will never restore what we once had.

 

[Peanut gallery]

The best part of this

It only comes up when a large major is about to fold. Why did we not talk about this when Aloha or ATA went out. Not until everybody started talking about the Untidy pending failure did this topic surface again. The last time was when Pan Am and Eastern Failed. This truely is the proof that although we fought communism for so many years in beats pure in our own hearts when we get threatened with the realities of a market driven system in our own backyard. A modern realist calls this the convenient capitalist, take the good and scream against goverment interference but when it turns bad where is that government that should protect us from these terrible market forces.

Have a good day Comrades

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I agree with "Where's the Van."

A true union would have standard pay scales for all aircraft. You want a 737 CA? He costs $200/hr.

And what about the companies that can't operate under those wages?

And what about the company that can afford more than $200. Why should a FedEx pilot only make $200 when Fred can give up 220 or 250/hr?

This "Loose affiliation of locals" will never restore what we once had.

I agree there needs to be more of a national agenda, however, the locals jack up the house... for example UAL2000 and DAL2001.

It only comes up when a large major is about to fold. Why did we not talk about this when Aloha or ATA went out. Not until everybody started talking about the Untidy pending failure did this topic surface again. The last time was when Pan Am and Eastern Failed. This truely is the proof that although we fought communism for so many years in beats pure in our own hearts when we get threatened with the realities of a market driven system in our own backyard. A modern realist calls this the convenient capitalist, take the good and scream against goverment interference but when it turns bad where is that government that should protect us from these terrible market forces.

Have a good day Comrades

Good point... NSL isn't mentioned during the good times when everyone is getting theirs....

And the only time that NSL is talked about is.. when layoff/job loss is happening to the guy talking about NSL.... As long as everyone else has theirs they will just pull the ladder up....


Free market capitalism.... I got mine baby!!

 

[Wheres the van?]

It only comes up when a large major is about to fold. Why did we not talk about this when Aloha or ATA went out. Not until everybody started talking about the Untidy pending failure did this topic surface again. The last time was when Pan Am and Eastern Failed. This truely is the proof that although we fought communism for so many years in beats pure in our own hearts when we get threatened with the realities of a market driven system in our own backyard. A modern realist calls this the convenient capitalist, take the good and scream against goverment interference but when it turns bad where is that government that should protect us from these terrible market forces.

Have a good day Comrades

Dos Vadania,listen Im going to say this again and I suggest you read it nice and slow if we as a pilot block set our cost (the amount set for skill and professionalism)at a non negiotionable rate,we would in an up economy not make huge amounts of money and equally in a down economy not lose huge amounts of money.The rate is the rate.This is not Communism nor is it Capitalism or even nudism if ism's are your thing,this is stability for my chosen profession,just as OB-GYN should be supported in "practicing there love to women",pilots should be allowed practice there skill and experiance for a given rate,no exciting highs,no depth defying lows,just stability.

 

[Freight Dog]

Drop the longevity pay concept and adopt one level of pay:

- 737 FO's make $90/hour
- 737 CA's make $140/hour

Drop the probationary pay. Drop the tiered, longevity raises. We either do the same job, or we do not.

Should have seen the blind stares I received when I told some Aloha captains that I didn't feel comfortable with probationary guys making $2k a month when I was making $7.5k for doing the exact same job. Probationary and early-on pay severely sags the bar low.

It should be NO longevity raises and EQUAL pay for EQUAL work. If one gets a raise, everyone gets a raise.

US airline pilots are doomed because they're refusing to think outside the box. They're stuck in archaic seniority systems which only work against them.

 

[pilotyip]

Do research on the Maritime industry, they have national seniority list