Can I do anything with 250 TT?

[Cessna172heavy]

I would have to say that there are probably very few jobs out there where you would even be allowed to fly for free. You'd have to own your own plane I guess, and then you'd be spending $$ to operate, instead of making it. Hasn't anyone here ever been so in love with their career choice that they think one day, "I love this so much, I'd even do it for free", serious or not. Maybe thats what this guy is thinking. I mean, Hey - I think that! Not that I'd do it for free for years on end or anything. Every time I fly, it benefits me - monetarily or experience-wise. I've got no more hrs than he does, and I'd love to find a job without having to instruct. I'm not counting on it, thus being why I'm in CFI school. I look forward to what instructing will teach me, and I know one day I'll have enough magic hrs to move on.

But seriously - he and myself currently are in no position to negotiate pay. So what should we do - pass on the lower paying jobs and give them to the next guy who comes along (because THERE WILL BE A NEXT GUY) so they can start climbing that latter? I don't think so. All us newcomers are anxious to start doing what we love to do, and pay might take a backseat in the end. Please, do enlighten me Oh Wise Bitter Sages of aviation, send me a revelation... and please stop chewing out those of us who may be less experienced than you are, with dreams of a flying career and questions we'd like an answer to.

 

[CaptainMark]

your sarcasm aside...u are doing the right thing...unless u want to give 10 years of your life to uncle sam then instructing is the quickest way to get your total time up...you get an intro into dealing with different personalities in a cockpit and get to make some decisions as well as teach...once your total time is up you can probably teach some multi or fly some 135 stuff...unless u are rich or extremely lucky there are no shortcuts...but don't work for free!

 

[aland504]

i don't literally want to work for free, i just meant is there anything out there, even if it doesn't pay. i just want to find out everything is all. im going to go get my cfi, i have no problem with instructing... just wanted to hear all the options is all.

 

[CaptainMark]

you will be surprised what can come from flight instructing...i met people who owned planes and they wanted me to fly them places while they were learning..usually doctors and accountants etc...built a lot of time that way..also a LR-35 captain based at the field lost his copilot and i was hired for the summer to take his place till i went back to college...also some people lent me there planes so i could go visit people on days off...i am still friends with them today...that led to flying s/e 135 in a cessna hauling parts to and from PHL..then i started flying the twins at the FBO and charters as well...built a lot of time that way..then finished school..flew lears..hello FDX..

 

[siucavflight]

You learn far more instructing than you ever do in the classroom.

 

[Hadhafang]

No one ever said you should never get in a plane unless you get paid for it... it's only a bad thing when you SHOULD be receiving a paycheck and other people are using you to make money for themselves.

I agree completely. My point is, how much should you demand? Yes, you should receive a paycheck, but it is not for the pilot to decide how much he gets paid. That is based on the economy and other factors of business. Really, I do agree with you, but I think we were just talking about slightly different things.

 

[Hadhafang]

av8rbama,

I agree completely. My point is, how much should you demand? Yes, you should receive a paycheck, but it is not for the pilot to decide how much he gets paid. That is based on the economy and other factors of business. Really, I do agree with you, but I think we were just talking about slightly different things.

 

[mcjohn]

Try Sierra West Airlines. They hire Metro III copilots, work everyone like dogs. It's a lot harder and worse paid than flight instructing but you get your multi time.

The only aircraft they seem to use are jets according to their website.

 

[sleddriver71]

Hadhafang,

You have made so many ignorant statements I don't know where to start. Don't give us your load about loving to fly. Everyone of us loves to fly. All I can say to you is that you will understand why the majority of us are bashing you for talking about things you have little to no experience in. You can be forgiven for thinking the way you do because you just don't have much experience yet. I for one was probably guilty of at least thinking if not saying many of the things you have said in your posts. If it seems like people are being overly rude to you and you think that it is unprofessional, well, maybe it is, but I can completely understand why these people are trashing what you say. Just reading some of the things you said infuriate me but I'm trying to stay level headed by telling you that you will know "exactly" where we are all coming from after you have been in our shoes for a while. I for one have no desire to fly for an airline and that makes no difference whatsoever in my attitude about what I expect out of flying. I choose to fly because it is what I enjoy doing. Having said that, the training, experience and the dollars to get where we are as pilots is often rewarded with pay that's embarassingly low. I can understand your train of thought because of where you're at, I was there once too. Just save all those little things you've written in this thread and come back and look at them in a few thousand hours and see how you feel about it then.

 

[Hadhafang]

Hasn't anyone here ever been so in love with their career choice that they think one day, "I love this so much, I'd even do it for free", serious or not. Maybe thats what this guy is thinking. I mean, Hey - I think that! Not that I'd do it for free for years on end or anything. Every time I fly, it benefits me - monetarily or experience-wise.

Bingo! I agree. Fly because you love it, not because it is a job.

 

[siucavflight]

And, really, the name calling is unecessary. It's not professional and it doesn't help anbody.

You are such a tool.

 

[av8rbama]

av8rbama,

I agree completely. My point is, how much should you demand? Yes, you should receive a paycheck, but it is not for the pilot to decide how much he gets paid. That is based on the economy and other factors of business. Really, I do agree with you, but I think we were just talking about slightly different things.

Au contraire. In a full-time job, it's called negotiation... it's tough, it takes balls, and you may run yourself out of a job if you're not careful... or you may get what you want for standing up for yourself. You can't say that that is just in aviation, it's in every damm profession where you are classified as a "professional" medicine, law, engineering, aviation, business, etc... they all take a ton of determination and usually a good many student loans to get get the education and training to succeed. Well, I take that back... due to all the PFT pukes and "daddy's money" floating around in aviation now, they've reduced us to the equivalent of mcdonalds fry cooks. It's kinda tough when some frat-daddy undercuts people more qualified and still drives home to his nice apartment in his Beamer while making peanuts. In every other "professional" job, you negotiate for salary and benefits.

In part-time contract work which I do 100% outside of flying survey flightlines, I am the one that calls the shots. Rarely am I called to make a trip in a 206, 182, 172, or in the right seat of a twin or whatever that I've got much advance notice. I have charts & currency to maintain, an s-corporation for my flying service that I have to pay taxes & business licenses on, and more importantly, a full-time job that I can't just quit at the drop of a hat... My employer is usually pretty flexible if I'm not out flying for him, and I'm flexible in return (going back to that concept of "negotiation"). If they need me to make that flight, they'll pay what I ask. The owner of the FBO always pays what I ask when I fly for him and has never grovelled over my rate... even if he books me a week in advance. With a company that needs me for a single trip to warm that right seat, their pay (without any negotiation) is usually WELL above what I would normally charge. For instance, I once drove 3 hours one-way to fly right seat in a 200 on a round trip to my home airport and back... a whopping .9 TT for the whole trip. I figured up my standard hobbs rate + my time & mileage back and forth and was paid (without me asking) about $50 more than I would have asked. I've never had a single person complain about my rates and I've flown for most everybody on multiple occasions. Give me about another year of this and my rate will likely rise by a couple of bucks.

And to answer your question about what to charge... that's for you to figure out.

 

[CaptainMark]

Bingo! I agree. Fly because you love it, not because it is a job.

well i may feel that way on my way to LAX for a 3 day layover in clear skies and no problems on the flight...but when my hot section blew up on the #1 CF6 of my A300 at 18000ft in wx i thought i'm glad i'm getting paid for this...and remember you cannot support a family flying for free!

 

[MDAutry]

You know it is because of this attitude that airlines will skip the wage down war that exist and they will just start hiring illegals for $0.13 an hour flight time and $0.03 per diem.... Good luck dude I hope you quit flying.

 

[ferlo]

Dude,

Come work at Alaska Airlines, they've been dreaming about you...
You must be the Chosen One..