Can a MD-80 autoland?

[michael707767]

It's never really pretty when the throttles move to idle at 50 feet in the -80.

If you are not going to idle soon after 50 feet in most situations, you are not landing the MD80 correctly.

 

[say again]

here's one

hahaha!! Good one.:laugh:

 

[aa73]

If you are not going to idle soon after 50 feet in most situations, you are not landing the MD80 correctly.

uhhh.... several decompressed vertebrae in my spine beg to differ!

as I recall, at heavy weights and the stab trim past 8-10 units nose up, the horizontal stab is at such a sharp angle that the servo tabs are effectively blanketed by the horizontal stab. (the -80 uses servo tabs for pitch and roll.) as such, when you pulled back to flare, NOTHING happened... so you needed to land with power.

at least that's how it was with the AA "super" 80s. maybe DL's -88s are different?

73

 

[b82rez]

uhhh.... several decompressed vertebrae in my spine beg to differ!

as I recall, at heavy weights and the stab trim past 8-10 units nose up, the horizontal stab is at such a sharp angle that the servo tabs are effectively blanketed by the horizontal stab. (the -80 uses servo tabs for pitch and roll.) as such, when you pulled back to flare, NOTHING happened... so you needed to land with power.

at least that's how it was with the AA "super" 80s. maybe DL's -88s are different?

73

The elevator is extremely effective throughout the whole flare, with no power, at high weights.

You can land the 80 a bunch of different ways, but when you land it with power you're just increasing your landing distance and brake/reverse use.

 

[michael707767]

The elevator is extremely effective throughout the whole flare, with no power, at high weights.

You can land the 80 a bunch of different ways, but when you land it with power you're just increasing your landing distance and brake/reverse use.

We have a winner!

Yes, at higher weights and the stab back toward 10 I will carry the power a little longer. But even then, I am still at idle by about 30 feet.

I get complaints all the time about the stopping capability of the 88. Then I watch those same pilots do a power on landing, touching down above vref at the end of the touchdown zone, and all I can do is shake my head.

 

[chperplt]

If you are not going to idle soon after 50 feet in most situations, you are not landing the MD80 correctly.

Oh-K.

 

[chperplt]

We have a winner!

Yes, at higher weights and the stab back toward 10 I will carry the power a little longer. But even then, I am still at idle by about 30 feet.

I get complaints all the time about the stopping capability of the 88. Then I watch those same pilots do a power on landing, touching down above vref at the end of the touchdown zone, and all I can do is shake my head.

I guess you're just super duper pilot Mike....

On a heavy airplane, I generally keep the power in until 10-20 feet, land at the beginning of the touchdown zone, on speed, and use minimal brake and reverse.

Landing above ref at the end of the TDZ is not poor -80 technique, it's poor piloting technique. While going to idle at 50 feet will absolutely guarantee you a landing in the beginning of the TDZ, it was also almost always guarantee a scream or two from the passengers and a sore back.

 

[pipe]

As I recall, a fully-loaded MD-83 can have clean manuever speeds >260 knots -- not exactly brimming over with excess lift.

I agree. With a trim setting of >10 and heavy weights, he who goes to idle at 50ft is tempting fate.

PIPE

 

[michael707767]

On a heavy airplane, I generally keep the power in until 10-20 feet, land at the beginning of the touchdown zone, on speed, and use minimal brake and reverse.

I bet you are also a flap 40 kinda guy.

 

[chperplt]

I bet you are also a flap 40 kinda guy.

If the conditions require it, sure... I have no problems landing with 28 either. I also like 250 knot descents and a Guinness at the end of a long day....

What's your point?

You must be one of those Delta pilots that ask for a wind check on a calm day... :laugh:

 

[Scrapdog]

Sure, it worked (somewhat) well in the -80. Now, the 727 autolanding...that was a sight! All that trust in a Mod V autopilot...

stlflyguy

Did you just include the words "all that thrust" and an airliner in the same sentence?

 

[pianoman]

Did you just include the words "all that thrust" and an airliner in the same sentence?

"All that trust".

 

[stlflyguy]

Did you just include the words "all that thrust" and an airliner in the same sentence?

No, you did.

stlflyguy

 

[waveflyer]

here's one

that's too good(!)

 

[Crossky]

When I trained on the -80 at the now defunct airline our sim instructor insisted that we disconnect autothrottles when they started reducing thrust at 50' and bring them back to idle ourselves while managing the flare and sink rate. After about 60 hours of holding onto the tail (my first jet), I still couldn't see the last 10 feet of the sink on landing. Then two unfortunate saps, a green on green crew, changing over from the 737, struck the tail of one of our -80's trying to save a high sink rate, and forced a huge and expensive repair job. We all lost our jobs two weeks later with bankruptcy and shutdown (unrelated to the tail strike of course).

It was a new CA's (great guy) first landing in the plane, with a new LCA (to the aircraft). The story I heard was that the autothrottles 'went to flight idle early' and he dropped the nose to maintain airspeed, producing the high sink rate.

The mad dog will bite you if you're not careful.