CALEX negotiations take turn for worse

[Ben Franklin]

•if the strike continues for 90 days or more, Continental is entitled to terminate the capacity purchase agreement for cause, cancel our subleases and take immediate possession of all of the aircraft covered by the capacity purchase agreement.[/i]

And the pilots come from..... where?

How much does a 50 seat E-145 Captain make on the current CAL cba?

Sincerely,

B. Franklin

 

[Sam Fisher]

That is the CPA. Thanks for posting it. Sorry I was wrong on the 90 day thing. But as you can see they have ACCESS to the training center(ie sims). They cannot take it but they can use it.

One he1l of a document though isn't it. Oh well if they don't wanna pay guess the bank will own the training center.

Actually, that is the Annual Report, not the CPA. The CPA is a confidential internal document that us line pilot weenies will never see.

In reality, the clauses stated in the Annual Report about the CPA aren't all that important because assuming the IPO never happened, CAL would still have the right, with or without the CPA, to give those airplanes to other airlines and have them flown by SCABS. Those clauses are there for legality and disclosure of potential risk and liability for the investors.

Sam

 

[Sam Fisher]

And the pilots come from..... where?

How much does a 50 seat E-145 Captain make on the current CAL cba?

Sincerely,

B. Franklin

It doesn't say it has to be flown by CAL pilots. CAL, Inc. can take the planes back and reallocate them to be flown by SCABS from another airline, such as Mesa or whoever is the lowest bidder. Either way, they'd be SCABS.

Sam

 

[vmc-hound]

this is an "extreme" example of what can happen...hopefully it will not...

both sides do not want the "dooms day scenario" pilots or managment!!!!

The cpa was published and given to employees when it came out...

 

[Sam Fisher]

The cpa was published and given to employees when it came out...

No it was not. The CPA is a confidential internal document that describes the marketing agreement between CAL, Inc. and XJT Airlines. Please stop posting incorrect information. What you are referring to is the IPO prospectus and subsequent SEC filings which are public documents which describe in some general nature what the CPA is and how it works but I can 100% assure you that it was NOT given to any employees.

So what is it exactly that you do for ExpressJet?

Sam

 

[Propblast]

All that strike language is bluster because CAL realized the mistake they made when they allowed all their feed to be controlled by one carrier. You XJT guys have them bent over. Don't miss your opportunity - I'm ready to pay strike dues.

Propblast

 

[BigShotXJTdrvr]

All that strike language is bluster because CAL realized the mistake they made when they allowed all their feed to be controlled by one carrier. You XJT guys have them bent over. Don't miss your opportunity - I'm ready to pay strike dues.

Propblast

That mistake is in the process of being corrected. CAL is building their portfolio.

 

[Propblast]

That mistake is in the process of being corrected. CAL is building their portfolio.

Yeah, I know. They haven't added any other than SKYW have they? Are you CLE based?

 

[NEDude]

If what Sam Fisher is a resonably accurate representation of what the CPA actually says, I think I'd be worried about the long-term affects of a possbile strike.

Consider that XJT does strike for 2 or more days.

If I understand it correctly the minute XJT goes on strike, the excusive rights to be CALs sole RJ feeder are gone. And when the strike passes its second day, CAL can begin removing A/C from XJT.

So the strike lasts 15 days. You get the Comair +30% you want (or whatever is acceptable to end the strike) and head back to work. As a couple of the clauses have been triggered, CAL then takes 40 airplanes and gives them Skywest (or anyone else) and takes over the training center for 180 days. The drop in 40 airplanes causes XJT to begin furloughs. CAL then begins to slowly transfer more and more flying to other carriers causing less and less flying for XJT.

In the short term you may get what you want, but the long-term effects may be negative.

Good luck though. I hope it does work out for you before the need to strike.

 

[Sam Fisher]

If what Sam Fisher is a resonably accurate representation of what the CPA actually says, I think I'd be worried about the long-term affects of a possbile strike.

Consider that XJT does strike for 2 or more days.

If I understand it correctly the minute XJT goes on strike, the excusive rights to be CALs sole RJ feeder are gone. And when the strike passes its second day, CAL can begin removing A/C from XJT.

So the strike lasts 15 days. You get the Comair +30% you want (or whatever is acceptable to end the strike) and head back to work. As a couple of the clauses have been triggered, CAL then takes 40 airplanes and gives them Skywest (or anyone else) and takes over the training center for 180 days. The drop in 40 airplanes causes XJT to begin furloughs. CAL then begins to slowly transfer more and more flying to other carriers causing less and less flying for XJT.

In the short term you may get what you want, but the long-term effects may be negative.

Good luck though. I hope it does work out for you before the need to strike.

NEDude,

I didn't make that stuff up. I copied and pasted it directly from the XJT 2004 Annual Report. It is quite accurate and real. However, it is also no different than what would happen if any airline goes on strike. Once a pilot group is released by the NMB to self help, that airline's management can "lock out" the pilots and do whatever it wants with their airplanes. As I said above, this "scare tactic" noted in the annual report isn't anything earth shattering. Had we never been IPO'd, the same end result could occur if we exercised self help. Heck, if Delta went on strike, they could replace their pilots with strike breakers (SCABS). Again, our situation is no different than anyone else's. It is a risk every pilot group must take to achieve the end result they desire and deserve.

Sam

 

[NEDude]

Sam,

I didn't mean to imply that you made it up. There just seemed to be some debate whether what was said in the annual report was the same thing that was in the CPA.

In my example however I am not referring to SCABS. I am saying that this could happen AFTER the strike ends. Meaning that once the clauses are triggered, CAL could wait until the strike ends, and then after you head back to work, begin to exercise their rights that were triggered during the strike. As it would no longer be struck work, there would be nobody crossing picket lines, and thus they would not be SCABS.

Again I obviously speculating as I don't know the details. But I would think this COULD be a legitimate concern.

 

[Obi-Wan]

Right now things are working as they should. It is completely normal for things to come to a halt during negotiations, it happens all the time from SWA to Delta. lets stop assuming on a public board and let the union do their job.

 

[vmc-hound]

I hope you are right because 10,000+ peoples jobs depend on "your" hopes or whatever... where are you getting your info on the cpa? do you know something everyone else does not?

nedude does have the correct idea regardless of what sam says...unless he can prove otherwise?

 

[Bjet Driver]

So the strike lasts 15 days. You get the Comair +30% you want (or whatever is acceptable to end the strike) and head back to work. As a couple of the clauses have been triggered, CAL then takes 40 airplanes and gives them Skywest (or anyone else) and takes over the training center for 180 days. The drop in 40 airplanes causes XJT to begin furloughs. CAL then begins to slowly transfer more and more flying to other carriers causing less and less flying for XJT.

Then I'LL take my 2 years of seniority and my $20,000/yr and say to hell with it. I'll get a job that actually has a future for myself and family. Maybe the difference between us and a lot of others is that we just don't give a sh%t anymore! As far as I'm concerned, XJT can either pay me OR SET THE PARKING BRAKES AND TURN OUT THE LIGHTS! I was furloughed for two years and I know there's more out there. If the company wants to pay me and my fellow employees what we're worth for flying around 40% of CAL traffic, then I'll be happy to keep on living the dream.

p.s. Spare me the "just be happy you have a job speech", because I'm not!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[vc10]

Most of the CPA _was_ made public. Significant documents must be substantially reproduced in filings with the SEC. Some economic terms may be redacted (i.e. blacked out). The CPA was filed with the SEC when ExpressJet went public.

 

[AviatorTx]

The CPA is a piece of toilet paper designed to scare the pilots out of a strike, and fool the investors into thinking the pilots won't strike.

NO! We are not going to get Comair plus 30%. I am realistic enough to see this. However, unlike most of you caving pu$$ies, at least we will stand up and get Comair plus something. We will also get the work rules we want. Put me in with the group that is willing to strike long enough to put this POS operation permanently out of business if they are not willing to share the wealth. I'm phukking ready. Bring it on!

 

[Sam Fisher]

Most of the CPA _was_ made public. Significant documents must be substantially reproduced in filings with the SEC. Some economic terms may be redacted (i.e. blacked out). The CPA was filed with the SEC when ExpressJet went public.

Yes, some of the terms and conditions of the CPA was made public both in the IPO Prospectus (S-1 filing) as well as in all of the 10K's and 10Q's. You won't find a public copy of this document anywhere, including on XJT's investor relations site or on edgar. If someone does find it, please let us all know where to go.

At any rate, this has developed into a "mine is bigger than yours" pissing contest. The root of the whole discussion centers on the fact that yes, XJT pilots are pissed and yes, management will have to pay up, because it is going to be this pilot group that does move the bar north of Comair.

Sam

 

[Sam Fisher]

Sam,

I didn't mean to imply that you made it up. There just seemed to be some debate whether what was said in the annual report was the same thing that was in the CPA.

In my example however I am not referring to SCABS. I am saying that this could happen AFTER the strike ends. Meaning that once the clauses are triggered, CAL could wait until the strike ends, and then after you head back to work, begin to exercise their rights that were triggered during the strike. As it would no longer be struck work, there would be nobody crossing picket lines, and thus they would not be SCABS.

Again I obviously speculating as I don't know the details. But I would think this COULD be a legitimate concern.

NEDude,

What is said in the 10K is derived from the CPA and put into "simpler terms" for the investor/public. You are correct in saying that CAL could wait until the strike was over and a contract was signed to move airplanes away, etc. Of course, that would do wonders for our stock price, of which CAL still holds a couple hundred million bucks of. But yes, it would no longer be struck work and they wouldn't be called SCABS, but I'm sure our pilots would have other names for them.

Sam

 

[Dewey Oxberger]

I am aware that CAL can begin to take aircraft away during an XJT strike, but I'm not so sure they can do it if we are back to work after the strike is finished. The CPA is void after a 90 day strike but CAL would not last that long anyway. Maybe Mr. Blue Devil can clear this up? Anyway, if they start taking planes during the strike we can just refuse to return to work until all the planes are back. Remember the 400 furloughs Comair threatened?

 

[BluDevAv8r]

I am aware that CAL can begin to take aircraft away during an XJT strike, but I'm not so sure they can do it if we are back to work after the strike is finished. The CPA is void after a 90 day strike but CAL would not last that long anyway. Maybe Mr. Blue Devil can clear this up? Anyway, if they start taking planes during the strike we can just refuse to return to work until all the planes are back. Remember the 400 furloughs Comair threatened?

Mr Blue Devil is watching his Devils lose in overtime. I hate the Terps.

What makes you think Mr Blue Devil knows the answer to this question?

Honestly though, I don't know the answer to that question. I'd have to talk to our attorneys and their attorneys. My guess is that any "back to work" agreement would involve us getting planes back, but I have no clue in all honesty.

-Neal