CAL tp start IAH to Auckland, NZ nonstop on 787

[Scope out RJ's]

Again, this is BS. FNWA pilots cannot bid our current 777s. Um, nope.

Um, yep. You're wrong.
From DTW320's above post:

744 and 777 Fences
All pilots are able to enter AE, VD or MD bids for all categories even though the 777 and 744 categories are fenced fleets. Pre-merger Northwest pilots are able to bid for otherwise unfilled 777 positions, but they will be sequenced after pre-merger DL pilots when filling positions on the 777. Conversely, pre-merger Delta pilots are able to bid for otherwise unfilled 744 positions, but they will be sequenced after pre-merger NW pilots when filling positions on the 744.

If the 787s are cnx, and replaced with 777s, then maybe, but no FNWA pilot can bid the 777s NOW. Where am I wrong again?

Look at the red underlined text

Look, you are the arogant azz if you think you can weasle some crazy idea into the facts. I guess we can all BID anything we want, but being awarded something is a different story, for 5 years PAL.


Bye Bye--General Lee

It's alright to admit it when you're wrong.

 

[Tomct]

GL....you call EWR, CLE and IAH sewers...maybe you should open your eyes...ATL Sucks B@lls!! I would put it right there with the others...or worse.

On the other side, YOU ARE WRONG interpreting your OWN CONTRACT!! Just admit you are wrong you Jack@ZZ!

Good luck to the CAL/UAL merger...hopefully it is not the "Sh!tStorm" that has become US.

 

[nwaf16dude]

I would think the same thing. However, G.L. is wrong in his statement. Additionally, you will find that as movement continues faster and faster, there will be some awards on these jets. Captain will go more junior, and so will the 74 and 777 f/o positions. Let me put it this way, I would not be surprised to find a fDAL or fNWA got one of the awards.

I'm sure my line of thinking on this is pretty typical for the fNWA side... I see the fenced 744 as my only chance of getting a top paying FO seat anytime in the next few years. Despite protests to the contrary, fDAL guys are going to take the A330 seats as they open up, and they'll take 744 seats as soon as they can. I'm not mad about this, it's just reality. Most guys are going to take the pay raise if they can get it. If I can use the fences to get into the 744, I'll take it at my first opportunity. I'd love to get that 747 type rating before they head to the bone yard. This is kind of a long way around just to reiterate the point that I really don't expect there to ever be a shortage of former NWA guys bidding the 744. BTW, I'm a late 99 hire at NWA, so it has to go at least that junior before a fDAL guy gets it.

 

[johnsonrod]

How likely is it that a pre-merger NWA pilot would allow an open 744 FO slot to go unfilled? Not likely. I am sure some random Diesel 9 FO would love to switch to the 744. So, the fences are still barriers to the opposite pilot group so long as there is a financial incentive to switch to the larger aircraft.

 

[Dude]

Holy crap, General. The update was fine, but why the dig on LBB, STL, or TUL? Seriously dude, what difference does it make who flies what to where? I do it because it pays the bills. My turn to LBB just happen to pay my bills off faster than if I was flying a 777 anywhere. I would love to fly another airplane, but not for less money. In the end, I only care about the money and schedule. When I was in the infancy of my career, it was all about the airplane and its horsepower-not anymore. Frankly, if I could find a way for the folks over at the company to just send me my check and never fly an airliner again, I could live with that

Enjoy your feud with yourself though, it makes me laugh.

 

[General Lee]

This is verbatim from the 12/14/2009 Delta MEC Scheduling Alert that was put out at the time of the first joint AE posting at that time:

744 and 777 Fences
All pilots are able to enter AE, VD or MD bids for all categories even though the 777 and 744 categories are fenced fleets. Pre-merger Northwest pilots are able to bid for otherwise unfilled 777 positions, but they will be sequenced after pre-merger DL pilots when filling positions on the 777. Conversely, pre-merger Delta pilots are able to bid for otherwise unfilled 744 positions, but they will be sequenced after pre-merger NW pilots when filling positions on the 744.

It was signed by the Chairman and the Vice Chairman of the DALPA scheduling committee.

THIS was published in the 12/24/2009 Scheduling Alert entitled:
FAQs – December 2009 AE Bid Posting

Q-2. What happens if there are insufficient pre-merger bidders for 744 or 777 categories?

A-2. If there are vacancies remaining in the DTW744 categories after all the pre-merger Northwest pilots’ preferences have been processed (insufficient bidders), pre-merger Delta pilots who have bid the category will be awarded these vacant positions in seniority order. Similarly, if there are vacancies remaining in the ATL or DTW 777 categories after all pre-merger Delta pilots’ preferences have been processed (insufficient bidders), pre-merger Northwest pilots who have bid the category will be awarded these vacant positions in seniority order. Pilots awarded these vacancies due to insufficient bidders in a fenced category (if any) will exercise their seniority within the category for monthly schedules. However, in the event of subsequent displacements on a future Advance Entitlement Bid, these pilots would be displaced prior to anyone else in the category.


Now back to your regularly scheduled discussion of the CAL 787 service to NZ...

Great, means NOTHING. You can also win the Powerball, it says it in the RULES. You can't win if you don't play! Any DL-S guy who thinks he/she will get a 744B slot prior to the 5 year mark after SOC is fooling themselves. This last bid was a fluke because guys who left on the initial 69 FO displacement 2 bids ago went somewhere closer to their homes. (like LAX 7ER) That left a wide gap and not many thought they could hold it. If they held the bid again, it would be a different story. DAL-N pilots will hold ALL of those seats until the 5 year mark is up, and same goes for the current 777s at DL for the S guys. Sorry, a FENCE is a FENCE, but at least you have the contract to give some people false hope. Insufficient bidders on the largest plane we have, that pays the most? Riiiiiiiiiiiiiight.



Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

^
Nup, you are just stupid. You don't know how to read. See above====^

I can't wait to see you bid it, again, and again, and again, and again, and still not get it. Your pipe dreams are just that, and I think the Mega Millions lottery is waiting for you too. Go for it! Keep dreamin! Talk about stupid, look in the mirror. Yeah, nobody at the bottom of the DAL-N side wants to fly the largest plane with the highest pay...........Wake up. What you need to do is look at the WHOLE picture, not the small print that really means little.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Um, yep. You're wrong.
From DTW320's above post:

744 and 777 Fences
All pilots are able to enter AE, VD or MD bids for all categories even though the 777 and 744 categories are fenced fleets. Pre-merger Northwest pilots are able to bid for otherwise unfilled 777 positions, but they will be sequenced after pre-merger DL pilots when filling positions on the 777. Conversely, pre-merger Delta pilots are able to bid for otherwise unfilled 744 positions, but they will be sequenced after pre-merger NW pilots when filling positions on the 744.




Look at the red underlined text


It's alright to admit it when you're wrong.

So, do you really believe that? Really? Insufficient bidders? Really? I think you may be on crack too. But hey, someone has to win the lottery too. You can't win if you don't play! The bottom guy on the 744 still has more than 1000 DAL-N pilots below him, and the 744 pays a lot more than a DC9. Yeah, they don't want a 200% pay raise, nah!


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

GL....you call EWR, CLE and IAH sewers...maybe you should open your eyes...ATL Sucks B@lls!! I would put it right there with the others...or worse.

On the other side, YOU ARE WRONG interpreting your OWN CONTRACT!! Just admit you are wrong you Jack@ZZ!

Good luck to the CAL/UAL merger...hopefully it is not the "Sh!tStorm" that has become US.

Wait, didn't you just get on with Virgin America? You did? Really? So, when is your next interview? Talk about winning the lottery, your airline is now down to $25 million in cash. If you ever win the Mega Millions, you need to donate it all to VA, and fast. Only $25 million in cash? That is what my Father-N-law has in his safe at home! Good luck with that! Maybe you can go scab for Spirit.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

I'm sure my line of thinking on this is pretty typical for the fNWA side... I see the fenced 744 as my only chance of getting a top paying FO seat anytime in the next few years. Despite protests to the contrary, fDAL guys are going to take the A330 seats as they open up, and they'll take 744 seats as soon as they can. I'm not mad about this, it's just reality. Most guys are going to take the pay raise if they can get it. If I can use the fences to get into the 744, I'll take it at my first opportunity. I'd love to get that 747 type rating before they head to the bone yard. This is kind of a long way around just to reiterate the point that I really don't expect there to ever be a shortage of former NWA guys bidding the 744. BTW, I'm a late 99 hire at NWA, so it has to go at least that junior before a fDAL guy gets it.

Wow, how about every DAL-S guy read the above. Every DAL-N pilot will bid it before any DAL-S guy gets it. And, Delta isn't getting any more 744s as of right now (earlier rumors stated maybe, but to no avail). Good luck with the 744B bidding BOYS! It's called a FENCE.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Holy crap, General. The update was fine, but why the dig on LBB, STL, or TUL? Seriously dude, what difference does it make who flies what to where? I do it because it pays the bills. My turn to LBB just happen to pay my bills off faster than if I was flying a 777 anywhere. I would love to fly another airplane, but not for less money. In the end, I only care about the money and schedule. When I was in the infancy of my career, it was all about the airplane and its horsepower-not anymore. Frankly, if I could find a way for the folks over at the company to just send me my check and never fly an airliner again, I could live with that

Enjoy your feud with yourself though, it makes me laugh.

Fued with myself? The only thing they pointed out was something that will never happen. Again, you can win the lottery too if you play enough, right? And, it is too bad you don't care where you layover. That is one thing that should be important, because when you turn 45 and then don't care to even look where your trips go, you know you have a serious case of BOREDOM. Your pay is great, but hopefully you start caring about other things that keep your job interesting. Good luck.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[PuffDriver]

I can't wait to see you bid it, again, and again, and again, and again, and still not get it. Your pipe dreams are just that, and I think the Mega Millions lottery is waiting for you too. Go for it! Keep dreamin! Talk about stupid, look in the mirror. Yeah, nobody at the bottom of the DAL-N side wants to fly the largest plane with the highest pay...........Wake up. What you need to do is look at the WHOLE picture, not the small print that really means little.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Nup, wrong again. Don't have the bid in for the 747. I would be willing to bet, however, that many of those 747 bidders would take the upgrade slot to captain prior to that coveted right seat 747. That's the way it rolls, plenty of left seat guys on airplanes who can hold right seat 777 or 747.

You lose, again. You can't read, nor can you reason. Besides, the argument was your assertion that south cannot bid the 747 and north cannot bid the 777. You are not even smart enough to admit your mistake, nor are you smart enough to keep your mouth shut.

Even my 9 year old can spot your epic fail.

 

[On Your Six]

Nup, wrong again. Don't have the bid in for the 747. I would be willing to bet, however, that many of those 747 bidders would take the upgrade slot to captain prior to that coveted right seat 747. That's the way it rolls, plenty of left seat guys on airplanes who can hold right seat 777 or 747.

You lose, again. You can't read, nor can you reason. Besides, the argument was your assertion that south cannot bid the 747 and north cannot bid the 777. You are not even smart enough to admit your mistake, nor are you smart enough to keep your mouth shut.

Even my 9 year old can spot your epic fail.

Did you read his response? Evidently not. It is highly unlikely that even a junior NW pilot would pass up an opportunity to move to the 744 FO slot from a lesser-paying airplane. Given that scenario, very few Delta South pilots would have access to that aircraft type if they so desired it. Understand?

While it is "possible" that a Delta South pilot could put a bid in for the 744, it is highly unlikely that any Delta South pilot could get it due to extreme likelihood that a coveted 744 FO slot would be taken by a junior NW pilot. The "fence" effectively excludes pilots from the other side due to economic incentives to transition to higher-paying aircraft - as it should. That was his point.

 

[General Lee]

Nup, wrong again. Don't have the bid in for the 747. I would be willing to bet, however, that many of those 747 bidders would take the upgrade slot to captain prior to that coveted right seat 747. That's the way it rolls, plenty of left seat guys on airplanes who can hold right seat 777 or 747.

You lose, again. You can't read, nor can you reason. Besides, the argument was your assertion that south cannot bid the 747 and north cannot bid the 777. You are not even smart enough to admit your mistake, nor are you smart enough to keep your mouth shut.

Even my 9 year old can spot your epic fail.

Epic fail? Did you tell your 9 year old that you WILL win the lottery too? I bet he/she believes you. How many A330 FOs did not have 744 FO bids in thinking that the original 744FOs that were displaced (69 of them) would reinstate? Ever ask yourself that? I guess not. It is a large pay raise to go to the 744 from the A330, and plenty would have jumped. Will they jump at it again if there was another bid KNOWING there are now fairly junior people on it? Oh yeah. It is called reasoning. You are lacking it. Your technicality is correct, but so your common sense reasoning is out of whack. I hope you keep bidding that 744, and I think in about 4 years you will achieve your dreams. Reach for the stars bud, there are only at least 1000 DL-N guys in your way........maybe you will get it within the next 6 or 7 AEs....good luck.


PS--re-read again what the DAL-N guy NWaF16dude wrote about this subject:

Most guys are going to take the pay raise if they can get it. If I can use the fences to get into the 744, I'll take it at my first opportunity. I'd love to get that 747 type rating before they head to the bone yard. This is kind of a long way around just to reiterate the point that I really don't expect there to ever be a shortage of former NWA guys bidding the 744.



Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[satpak77]

WN will definately make more $$$ on thier flight to TUL

:laugh:

I just fell out of my chair

 

[DTW320]

The bottom guy on the 744 still has more than 1000 DAL-N pilots below him, and the 744 pays a lot more than a DC9. Yeah, they don't want a 200% pay raise, nah!
Bye Bye--General Lee

200% raise? It SHOULD be....but actually it's about 38%...close, though...after all, they don't call you generally for nothing...as in 38% is "generally" the same as 200%

It is a large pay raise to go to the 744 from the A330

The raise there is less than 6%....using "generally" math, that's about 32%....everyone got it??

And as for that $25mil in your father-in-laws safe at home...wow! That's like at least 200% more than I have at home! Your F-I-L must be really proud of your income!

So, if you were to work on the negotiating committee would we get like a 200% raise in 2012?? OR is it more likely that you would work on the Communications committee and tell us all at the road shows that the 4% that we got is, like, 200%!! That will get some cheers.

Was that you on the news tonight with the 76 landing in ATL? They lost , like, 150% of their engines. Great job on that!

 

[johnsonrod]

200% raise? It SHOULD be....but actually it's about 38%...close, though...after all, they don't call you generally for nothing...as in 38% is "generally" the same as 200%
The raise there is less than 6%....using "generally" math, that's about 32%....everyone got it??

And as for that $25mil in your father-in-laws safe at home...wow! That's like at least 200% more than I have at home! Your F-I-L must be really proud of your income!

So, if you were to work on the negotiating committee would we get like a 200% raise in 2012?? OR is it more likely that you would work on the Communications committee and tell us all at the road shows that the 4% that we got is, like, 200%!! That will get some cheers.

Was that you on the news tonight with the 76 landing in ATL? They lost , like, 150% of their engines. Great job on that!

Cool it Francis...

 

[DTW320]

Cool it Francis...

Nahhhh.....someone has to hold genital accountable for the effluent spewing forth. Besides, none of this concerns you and your E145 bid. Thanks for your concern.

 

[FLYLOW22]

I would imagine the pay will be almost the same or within a few bucks an hour to that in which the 777 will be paying on the new contract(hopefully something North of $225.00 an hour).

Shoot man.... You are going to settle for $225/hour on a twin aisle?!?!?!

That was almost A320 pay 11 years ago at the big 3.

Think bigger Sir.

 

[General Lee]

200% raise? It SHOULD be....but actually it's about 38%...close, though...after all, they don't call you generally for nothing...as in 38% is "generally" the same as 200%
The raise there is less than 6%....using "generally" math, that's about 32%....everyone got it??

And as for that $25mil in your father-in-laws safe at home...wow! That's like at least 200% more than I have at home! Your F-I-L must be really proud of your income!

So, if you were to work on the negotiating committee would we get like a 200% raise in 2012?? OR is it more likely that you would work on the Communications committee and tell us all at the road shows that the 4% that we got is, like, 200%!! That will get some cheers.

Was that you on the news tonight with the 76 landing in ATL? They lost , like, 150% of their engines. Great job on that!

Wow, you're a stickler no doubt. But, you get the gist I am sure. There is a significant raise for any DC9 guy to go to the 744 if he/she wants, and with the INTL override and higher perdiem, it may be a bit more than you say. You wouldn't want a 38% raise going from reserve on the DC9 to reserve on the 744? Junior guys will bid it, for sure. Why don't you do it? That will give a junior guy like yourself a chance to finally make the big bucks.

If I were to work on the negotiating committee, I would go for the 200% raise, because we all know we deserve it. You gotta aim high you know...If you were on there, I bet you would give it all away to allow the senior guys to keep their frozen pensions, right? Oh wait, you did that already........

And yes, my F-I-L is rich. All I can say is I don't have to pick up extra trips each month, and that allows me plenty of FI time. He does like me though, thinks I have a quit wit, and I treat his daughter very well. Let me guess, you married a stew at Mesaba, right? You know what my Mom said, right? "You can fall in love with a rich girl just as fast as you can with a poor one..." You should have heard that advice too I guess.

And you should know that I wasn't flying that 767 in ATL tonight, just check out all of my posts today. Today was a good day.


Bye Bye--General Lee