CAL tp start IAH to Auckland, NZ nonstop on 787

[RSRVWINDSURFR]

The DL/NWA joint contract was done first, and management really wanted everything to go as smoothly as possible, probably because a lot of the bonuses for SOC (single operating certificate) were awarded after the FAA signed off on everything. Happier employees supposedly meant faster acceptance. Also, the joint contract was done prior to the SLI (learned via the USAir debacle), and the raises dampened some of the rage over relative seniority within the groups. Look for the contract to be done first. I think the DL/NWA model was a lot better than the USAir model, and the UAL/CAL management types will go for that.


Bye Bye---General Lee

I hope you're right, but I don't think you are. Smizek is just starting to show his true colors. Everybody at UAL seems giddy that they're getting CAL's crack management team, but I'm afraid they're about to get more of the same old garbage. Smizek has not done one positive thing for labor since he has taken over. He is effectively undoing everything positive Bethune ever did for CAL. I wouldn't be surprised if Smizek thinks the turmoil at Usairways is actually a good thing. Hey, if it keeps them in their concessionary contracts longer, it must be a good thing, right?

The fact that he hasn't reached out to labor, and was actually quoted as saying "I don't need labor to get this done" is a perfect indication of what's to come. Fight's on.

 

[SuperFLUF]

I sure hope they do hold the line. Scope is the first thing I will look at. Are you sure our MEC is commited to hold the line?

I have heard, first hand, commitments from the IAH chairman and vice-chair.
If it comes down to it, a roll call vote at the MEC will only need one of the EWR reps to vote along with them and they rule the day.

The MEC chair has stated that the MEC as a whole had heard the pilots' concerns to hold the line on scope loud and clear and that in his talks with the UAL MEC they feel the same way.

 

[SuperFLUF]

...I wouldn't be surprised if Smizek thinks the turmoil at Usairways is actually a good thing. Hey, if it keeps them in their concessionary contracts longer, it must be a good thing, right...

Not really. The difference in the financial performance between AAA & DAL has a lot to do with the lack of "synergies" achieved in the AAA merger because they are still operating with two separate pilot groups.

This "synergy" of cost savings is why we're holding the SLI until after we accept a JCBA from the company. No SLI = no pilot synergies. (aircraft routing, pilot training, fleet optimization.....etc) Its a big number and its why the pressure is on mgmt. to get a JCBA done.
That doesn't mean that they will cave on scope, but if we stick together (and don't go chasing the carrot) mgmt. will have NO choice.

 

[PuffDriver]

Technically I suppose you are right about opposite sides being able to bid the fenced jets, but they can only be awarded a spot on a fenced jet if there are not enough bidders from the original side. It hasn't happened yet, and is very unlikely in my opinion.

I would think the same thing. However, G.L. is wrong in his statement. Additionally, you will find that as movement continues faster and faster, there will be some awards on these jets. Captain will go more junior, and so will the 74 and 777 f/o positions. Let me put it this way, I would not be surprised to find a fDAL or fNWA got one of the awards.

 

[General Lee]

I would think the same thing. However, G.L. is wrong in his statement. Additionally, you will find that as movement continues faster and faster, there will be some awards on these jets. Captain will go more junior, and so will the 74 and 777 f/o positions. Let me put it this way, I would not be surprised to find a fDAL or fNWA got one of the awards.

Can you give me an example of my "incorrect" statements that reflect pretty much EXACTLY what is happening right now? If you think that the fences will come down, then great, but technically they don't have to at all via binding arbitration. If you think that will be cancelled, then you have a crystal ball.....


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

[/HTML]

The 744s at DL have recently gone very junior, but because of the fence only DL-N pilots can bid it. Same goes for the 777s for the South side, although they have remained fairly senior./HTML]
 
So you are saying that this statement is correct? This statement could not be more incorrect. Go work for Southwest if you want to be an arrogant a$$. You are wrong. fDAL can bid the 747, and fNWA can bid the 777 and be awarded them.[/QUOTE]
 
Again, this is BS.  FNWA pilots cannot bid our current 777s.  Um, nope.  If the 787s are cnx, and replaced with 777s, then maybe, but no FNWA pilot can bid the 777s NOW.  Where am I wrong again?  Look, you are the arogant azz if you think you can weasle some crazy idea into the facts.  I guess we can all BID anything we want, but being awarded something is a different story, for 5 years PAL.
 
 
Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Technically I suppose you are right about opposite sides being able to bid the fenced jets, but they can only be awarded a spot on a fenced jet if there are not enough bidders from the original side. It hasn't happened yet, and is very unlikely in my opinion.

I agree with you. Sure, you can try to bid anything you want, but you will not be awarded any 744 or 777 if you are behind the fence. I think Puff has lost his mind.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Let's see, most junior 747 FO was a Feb-98 hire, I guess a 12 plus year FO is "junior". Most junior 777 FO was a Nov - 97 hire, "pretty senior". But I guess when you look at the 4 months between date of hire, but the 2300 pilots between them, that would be junior/senior.

Seniority numbers, not longevity. The bottom guy at UAL will have 13 years when he merges with CAL, but he will still be junior unfortunately.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[DTW320]

I agree with you. Sure, you can try to bid anything you want, but you will not be awarded any 744 or 777 if you are behind the fence. I think Puff has lost his mind.


Bye Bye---General Lee

This is verbatim from the 12/14/2009 Delta MEC Scheduling Alert that was put out at the time of the first joint AE posting at that time:

744 and 777 Fences
All pilots are able to enter AE, VD or MD bids for all categories even though the 777 and 744 categories are fenced fleets. Pre-merger Northwest pilots are able to bid for otherwise unfilled 777 positions, but they will be sequenced after pre-merger DL pilots when filling positions on the 777. Conversely, pre-merger Delta pilots are able to bid for otherwise unfilled 744 positions, but they will be sequenced after pre-merger NW pilots when filling positions on the 744.

It was signed by the Chairman and the Vice Chairman of the DALPA scheduling committee.

THIS was published in the 12/24/2009 Scheduling Alert entitled:
FAQs – December 2009 AE Bid Posting

Q-2. What happens if there are insufficient pre-merger bidders for 744 or 777 categories?

A-2. If there are vacancies remaining in the DTW744 categories after all the pre-merger Northwest pilots’ preferences have been processed (insufficient bidders), pre-merger Delta pilots who have bid the category will be awarded these vacant positions in seniority order. Similarly, if there are vacancies remaining in the ATL or DTW 777 categories after all pre-merger Delta pilots’ preferences have been processed (insufficient bidders), pre-merger Northwest pilots who have bid the category will be awarded these vacant positions in seniority order. Pilots awarded these vacancies due to insufficient bidders in a fenced category (if any) will exercise their seniority within the category for monthly schedules. However, in the event of subsequent displacements on a future Advance Entitlement Bid, these pilots would be displaced prior to anyone else in the category.


Now back to your regularly scheduled discussion of the CAL 787 service to NZ...

 

[PuffDriver]

I agree with you. Sure, you can try to bid anything you want, but you will not be awarded any 744 or 777 if you are behind the fence. I think Puff has lost his mind.


Bye Bye---General Lee

^
Nup, you are just stupid. You don't know how to read. See above====^

 

[Scope out RJ's]

Again, this is BS. FNWA pilots cannot bid our current 777s. Um, nope.

Um, yep. You're wrong.
From DTW320's above post:

744 and 777 Fences
All pilots are able to enter AE, VD or MD bids for all categories even though the 777 and 744 categories are fenced fleets. Pre-merger Northwest pilots are able to bid for otherwise unfilled 777 positions, but they will be sequenced after pre-merger DL pilots when filling positions on the 777. Conversely, pre-merger Delta pilots are able to bid for otherwise unfilled 744 positions, but they will be sequenced after pre-merger NW pilots when filling positions on the 744.

If the 787s are cnx, and replaced with 777s, then maybe, but no FNWA pilot can bid the 777s NOW. Where am I wrong again?

Look at the red underlined text

Look, you are the arogant azz if you think you can weasle some crazy idea into the facts. I guess we can all BID anything we want, but being awarded something is a different story, for 5 years PAL.


Bye Bye--General Lee

It's alright to admit it when you're wrong.

 

[Tomct]

GL....you call EWR, CLE and IAH sewers...maybe you should open your eyes...ATL Sucks B@lls!! I would put it right there with the others...or worse.

On the other side, YOU ARE WRONG interpreting your OWN CONTRACT!! Just admit you are wrong you Jack@ZZ!

Good luck to the CAL/UAL merger...hopefully it is not the "Sh!tStorm" that has become US.

 

[nwaf16dude]

I would think the same thing. However, G.L. is wrong in his statement. Additionally, you will find that as movement continues faster and faster, there will be some awards on these jets. Captain will go more junior, and so will the 74 and 777 f/o positions. Let me put it this way, I would not be surprised to find a fDAL or fNWA got one of the awards.

I'm sure my line of thinking on this is pretty typical for the fNWA side... I see the fenced 744 as my only chance of getting a top paying FO seat anytime in the next few years. Despite protests to the contrary, fDAL guys are going to take the A330 seats as they open up, and they'll take 744 seats as soon as they can. I'm not mad about this, it's just reality. Most guys are going to take the pay raise if they can get it. If I can use the fences to get into the 744, I'll take it at my first opportunity. I'd love to get that 747 type rating before they head to the bone yard. This is kind of a long way around just to reiterate the point that I really don't expect there to ever be a shortage of former NWA guys bidding the 744. BTW, I'm a late 99 hire at NWA, so it has to go at least that junior before a fDAL guy gets it.

 

[johnsonrod]

How likely is it that a pre-merger NWA pilot would allow an open 744 FO slot to go unfilled? Not likely. I am sure some random Diesel 9 FO would love to switch to the 744. So, the fences are still barriers to the opposite pilot group so long as there is a financial incentive to switch to the larger aircraft.

 

[Dude]

Holy crap, General. The update was fine, but why the dig on LBB, STL, or TUL? Seriously dude, what difference does it make who flies what to where? I do it because it pays the bills. My turn to LBB just happen to pay my bills off faster than if I was flying a 777 anywhere. I would love to fly another airplane, but not for less money. In the end, I only care about the money and schedule. When I was in the infancy of my career, it was all about the airplane and its horsepower-not anymore. Frankly, if I could find a way for the folks over at the company to just send me my check and never fly an airliner again, I could live with that

Enjoy your feud with yourself though, it makes me laugh.