CAL 48/month indefinitely

[Boeingman]

XETALPA MEC, CALALPA MEC and XJET management have been working with CAL management for some sort of an agreement. ALPA national has nothing to do with this.

Basically it is CAL management that seems to be the road block with these pilots positions at CAL.

Nothing official has been released by either party yet, but if it does it will be posted here.

I only mentioned National if there was a deliberate denial of a specified written promise. It would seem that this should of been hamered out by all parties prior to the resupmtion of hiring. As more time passes, these guys are harmed while slots get filled.

Thanks for the info. I had assumed all the eligible XJET pilots were already over here.

 

[Truckdriver]

I had assumed all the eligible XJET pilots were already over here.

All that were eligible under the old flow-through are over there. If CAL had never furloughed in 2001, then these PIG guys we speak of would have been ratioed at a 3:1 ratio with off the street guys. However, CAL did furlough and ALL furloughed guys flowed back to XJT via DOH displacing lots and lots of XJT guys. XJT guys paid a price to let the CAL guys continue to have employement during this tough time. In return for that, the last 113 flow through guys went over to CAL with no ratio. Now CAL should do the same and take the PIGS with no ratio, but they are jerking us around potentially costing us millions in carreer earnings. I have already lost thousand and thousand of dollars because of the flow-back stuff and now I'm losing millions based upon this round of crap. I know this industry is not fair, but this whole mess at CAL could be easily prevented if CAL management was not trying to create dis-accord amongst their pilots.

 

[Mr Hat]

The funny part of all of this is that Xjet management agree's with the pilots! They have stated that they are NOT the reason for the hold. One would think that XJet couldnt handle the training load but they want these senior, higher paid guys to move on to CAL.

 

[RichardFitzwell]

Hat or Truck,

Do the PIGS want Express DOH for pass travel?

 

[Boeingman]

management was not trying to create dis-accord amongst their pilots.

You are forgetting that fractionalizing the pilot group allows them to shove lousy contracts down our throats. That is why I have been bitching for years we are our own worst enemies. Management laughs all the way to the bank.

I have heard both sides of the arguments about the prior flow through and effects on pilots. I think that everyone has a valid opinion and there are no easy answers.

 

[densoo]

XJT guys paid a price to let the CAL guys continue to have employement during this tough time.

"let"?!

There was no generosity in this. It was a cold, calculated deal that XJT pilots negotiated. And what a deal it was. XJT flows through to CAL and, in case of furlough, they go back to XJT with their ORIGINAL DOH. That's right, they held a seniority number on two lists at one time, AND accrued seniority at XJT WHILE they were at CAL. Talk about job security.

9/11? Massive furloughs in the industry? What me worry. When the prior-XJT guys were furloughed, they went back to XJT as the most senior captains on the property, bidding 18 days off, weekends off, best trips, max pay--all the while furloughed guys and USA, DAL, AA, UAL, ETC, are scrambling to get jobs at a regional, if they're lucky, and more likely at a local retailer. But at XJT, in return for this unprecedented deal, they signed off on the non prior XJT guys flowing back as well.

Nobody at any carrier fared better than the former XJT pilots during the industry downturn. If they didn't get furloughed, they had a job. If they did get furloughed, they had a job, and a pretty good one at that. An astute deal no matter how you look at it.

My point: Too bad the XJT MEC wasn't negotiating CAL's last contract!

 

[Boeingman]

Too bad the XJT MEC wasn't negotiating CAL's last contract!

I think my Nephew's 5th grade student council would of done a better job than
our NC and those backing them within the MEC.

 

[Mr Hat]

I still say we shoulda stuck together as CALALPA and got rid of the trouble makers in the MEC....
Junior CAL pilots have no place to go if CAL furloughs
The issues with the PIGS going over to CAL and folks like me who can't even apply to CAL
Scope restrictions and territorial garbage that keeps us fighting ourselves instead of watching what managment does.......
We were better off when we worked together. The "chosen few" in CALALPA decided to declare all out war on Express after the ALPA vote and we never recovered nor were we able to stop the constant onslaught.

 

[Mr Hat]

Do the PIGS want Express DOH for pass travel?

I'm sure they do but everyone knows they aren't going to get it.

 

[imadumbpilot]

XJT guys paid a price to let the CAL guys continue to have employement during this tough time. In return for that, the last 113 flow through guys went over to CAL with no ratio. .

First of all no one "let" the furloughed CAL pilots flow back, it was a contractually negotiated item. Granted CAL could have claimed force mejeure, but they didn't.

Secondly, the 113, or at the time 118, was not a quid pro quo for the flow back. They were negotiated prior to Sept 11 when the company was claiming it would terminate the FTA with the spin off of XJT.

Just the facts please.

 

[castle bravo]

Why is CAL using that stupid AirlineApps.com application service?

 

[Thedude]

Excuse me for my ignorance...but does PIG = preferential interview group?

 

[BluDevAv8r]

Hat or Truck,

Do the PIGS want Express DOH for pass travel?

Yes, and as of right now, they are getting it, per a letter from CAL management to the XJT MEC.

Below is a copy of a post I put on calforums on this issue. Why this is even being brought up by some CAL pilots is beyond me frankly and leaves me scratching my head in a serious way.

-Neal

Posted on calforums:

As someone said above, if a pilot in the PIP group chooses to not go to CAL, then he will still bump that "most junior CAL captain" if they are both pass riding. As a matter of fact, we have pilots at XJT that will bump many 757 captains at CAL. Go look up some of our 80xxx employee number pilots who were hired in the late 70's and early 80's.

This is not a "pilot" issue. It is an "employee" issue. We have hired many CAL employees to be pilots here in the past few years. I met one just the other day (EWR gate agent turned XJT pilot). He retained his pass travel boarding date.

Lastly, this isn't a collective bargaining agreement issue but rather, a CAL corporate policy issue. Pass Travel is not discussed in your CBA (nor ours). CAL management owns the policy via the management right's provision in both contracts. They can do whatever they want unfortunately. You saw that with their unilateral changes to buddy pass fees and commuter pass fees.

Personally speaking (taking off my "ALPA hat"), I don't understand the big point here but maybe I am missing something (and if I am, I'm sure some of you guys will have no problem pointing it out). We have pilots today that will bump some of your pilots and just because they choose to transition to CAL you want them to no longer be able to bump those pilots despite the fact they have worked for CAL and XJT for roughly 10 years? Talk about unionism and unity.

What you guys are proposing is the first step towards wanting XJT employees to board after CAL employees, thus promoting a "second class citizen" type of system, which will only cause CAL employees to board XJT airplanes after XJT employees, only further dividing our employee groups (notice I didn't say "pilot" groups). Is this what we really want here guys?

-Neal

 

[Mr Hat]

I stand corrected. Yes they are keeping their pass travel. No it doesn't matter just as Neil said....as a 98 hire at XJet, I bump a CAL 00 hire anyway. At least for the time being. When did that letter come out Neal?

 

[RichardFitzwell]

Why this is even being brought up by some CAL pilots is beyond me frankly and leaves me scratching my head in a serious way.

I am bringing it up because it WILL affect me.

I was hired by CAL in 2001. The PIGS were hired by CAL in 2002. Right? They were HIRED in 2002. That’s the argument so they should be ahead of all the off the street hires. Now some are fighting to have their CAL new hire dates pushed forward to their Express new hire dates for pass travel.

Even though CAL hired me in '01, I had my hire date adjusted back because I was furloughed for 3 1/2 years. Fine. Now close three hundred NEW CAL pilots from XJET would like to be able to bump me and hundreds of other CAL pilots hired at CAL before them for pass travel. Please tell me I’m wrong and this isn’t the way it is. Maybe I’m confused but that doesn’t make sense.

XJET is not CAL. Some at XJET have even mentioned a lawsuit against CAL if things don’t go their way. I’m tired of hearing about the XJET pilots that feel they DESERVE this and that. I wonder why CAL has done away with the flow through? These ‘new hires’ should be new hires for everything including pass travel. IF you don’t like it, stay at XJET. There are plenty of good people that will do a good job for Continental.

IMO scraping the flow through is a good thing. CAL’s hiring department can now hire whomever it wants and the ‘I’m owed this attitude’ expressed by a few will be gone. Welcome new hires with a positive attitude.

 

[BluDevAv8r]

I am bringing it up because it WILL affect me.

I was hired by CAL in 2001. The PIGS were hired by CAL in 2002. Right? They were HIRED in 2002. That’s the argument so they should be ahead of all the off the street hires. Now some are fighting to have their CAL new hire dates pushed forward to their Express new hire dates for pass travel.

Even though CAL hired me in '01, I had my hire date adjusted back because I was furloughed for 3 1/2 years. Fine. Now close three hundred NEW CAL pilots from XJET would like to be able to bump me and hundreds of other CAL pilots hired at CAL before them for pass travel. Please tell me I’m wrong and this isn’t the way it is. Maybe I’m confused but that doesn’t make sense.

XJET is not CAL. Some at XJET have even mentioned a lawsuit against CAL if things don’t go their way. I’m tired of hearing about the XJET pilots that feel they DESERVE this and that. I wonder why CAL has done away with the flow through? These ‘new hires’ should be new hires for everything including pass travel. IF you don’t like it, stay at XJET. There are plenty of good people that will do a good job for Continental.

IMO scraping the flow through is a good thing. CAL’s hiring department can now hire whomever it wants and the ‘I’m owed this attitude’ expressed by a few will be gone. Welcome new hires with a positive attitude.

Richard,

Here is the bottomline - Right now...today...I, as a 3/00 hire, can bump you on a non-rev pass. All of the pilots in the PIP group can also bump you today, even though they are still flying at XJT. There are pilots who were hired in 1980 at XJT who can bump 757 captains today. But as I said above, it isn't a "pilot" issue but rather - an "employee" issue. We have employees here at XJT who have worked for CAL/XJT for over 40 years (rampers, agents, etc). They all can bump you as well. Lastly, we have recently hired a lot of CAL employees as XJT new hire pilots. Guess what? They retained not only their employee number but their CAL DOH for pass travel purposes as well.

I won't respond to the anti-XJT pilot stuff because it is a futile discussion and one that gets us nowhere fast. What I will say, however, is that had you flowed back to XJT (I understand that you might not have been senior enough in the first round but could have came later on of course but also understand why you wouldn't want to have done that...although a few did), your viewpoint on some of these issues might be different - many OTS flowbacks had a huge change of heart on these types of issues after flying here for a few years.

-Neal

 

[white E]

War Eagle!!

 

[SuperFLUF]

First class of "off the street hires" started on May 17th.

Don't know what the makeup of that class was though.

 

[Boeingman]

First class of "off the street hires" started on May 17th.

Don't know what the makeup of that class was though.

I heard those were guys already hired and had their classes cancelled after 9/11.
I guess you are right technically they are off the street hires, but not guys from the latest round of interviews. Supposedly they start June 7th.

 

[scarlet]

You would think a Continental employee for 10years of employment would get at least an interview.....Or hear something one way or another...