C-5 down at Dover (merged)

[TankerDriver]

Hmm... ok. I'm just wondering why, if they were able to successfully shut the engine down, solving the reverser problem, they elected not to gain some altitude, go into holding, dump fuel to get lighter, get situated with the approach and avionics setup and then come back for a lighter weight landing. Of course armchair quarterbacking is easy, but I'm just trying to figure out the chain of events that led to, what seems like, a rushed, heavyweight 3 engine approach. All other malfunctions aside, shutting down 1 engine on a 4 engined jet should not necessitate a rushed approach.

How is the performance of the C-5 at these weights on 3 engines?

 

[L-1011-500]

Hmm... ok. I'm just wondering why, if they were able to successfully shut the engine down, solving the reverser problem, they elected not to gain some altitude, go into holding, dump fuel to get lighter, get situated with the approach and avionics setup and then come back for a lighter weight landing. Of course armchair quarterbacking is easy, but I'm just trying to figure out the chain of events that led to, what seems like, a rushed, heavyweight 3 engine approach. All other malfunctions aside, shutting down 1 engine on a 4 engined jet should not necessitate a rushed approach.

How is the performance of the C-5 at these weights on 3 engines?

I don't know about what rate a tanker dumps fuel at but I have never seen any airplane that dumps it at a rate that seems fast enough. Also the book recommends a 40 % flaps approach and landing for a heavy weight 3 engine landing. My guess is the FSAS might have been trying to fly a full flap (100%) and they ran out of airspeed. I have a few years flying C5's but not the glass so it's just a guess. I find it weird that we still are not getting much info officially yet. One of my concerns with all this is the media and the generals will spin this into we need more C-17's ploy.

 

[MarineGrunt]

The 135 can dump at 6500#/min with all pumps going, but then again we were made for dumping gas....

 

[TankerDriver]

I don't know about what rate a tanker dumps fuel at but I have never seen any airplane that dumps it at a rate that seems fast enough.

Good point. I was in the tanker mindset knowing we can dump 100,000lb in about 15 minutes.

 

[C-5 MEM]

I have been on the C-5 for some time. The light 0059 had was a TR light on no TR deployed. Plues if they did have a TR deploy in flight the Engine was shut down. I dont see any engine with the TR deployed. I dont know the answer to what happend only ideas which could be any number of things.
Satpak: The flight engineer can dump fuel anytime to get it down 732500 or 159250 on the fuel.
RJP: We use Jet A-1. We can use JP-8 but the bases and civilian airfields always have Jet A-1.

I have read on other post friends talking to those on the crew. Anytime a crash occurs crews are given a document not to discuss anything about the crash.
A report we be sent out in 30 days post crash report. Our unit we get the report and when it is released I will let everyone know.

C-5 MEM

 

[afres bum]

Anyone have a copy of the FCIF that came out a few years ago telling us not to dump fuel? it also stated that you could dump fuel if it was an absolute emergency (implying 2 engine), but of the 7 times I have shut down engines in flight on FRED and a decade of flying it, I only flew with one person who dumped fuel (He dumped fuel in the 80’s) and the west German’s vectored the airplane to the boarder of East Germany so the wind would blow the fuel to the east side of the border. After many emergency returns, I would have tried to just land and let maintenance fix the bad micro switch so I could take off before I ran out of duty day... dumping fuel would never have allowed it.

 

[C-5 MEM]

I recall FCIF that certain situations items we can dump fuel. Here is the thing. If you have a engine shutdown we have all the time in the world to work the problem. Only a pylon fire would be my big concern to get it on the ground.

C-5

 

[L-1011-500]

I have been on the C-5 for some time. The flight engineer can dump fuel anytime to get it down 732500 or 159250 on the fuel.
C-5 MEM

You can't dump it that fast. Even if you started dumping fuel a couple minutes after the engine shutdown by the time you circle to land you have not dumped enough to make much difference. I have been on the C-5 since 1986 and there is no way I would go out and hold to dump when I can land at max TO wt. We'll just have to wait until the accident report comes out. Even then it might not give many answers. Ask anyone flying the C-5 when the Ramstein crash happened. The official report was a T/R but that was to keep the war going. Not too many guys believe it was a T/R cut and dried.

 

[C-5 MEM]

635850lbs total weight or 159250 lbs fuel wt.
732500 normal ramp wt.

 

[c5driver]

Good point. I was in the tanker mindset knowing we can dump 100,000lb in about 15 minutes.

FRED can dump 9000#/min from what I remember. Man I miss flying that thing! Kept my IFE skills sharp!