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Corbon
Major League Infidel
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Oh really? And I suppose in your world you don't take economic conditions into consideration. Nobody expected us to get an industry leading contract. We wanted a fair contract that included more precise language, pay raises, good QOL, and put Republic away and we got that. Whether you agree with it or not, we do. In a time where management is using intimidation and threats to try to get what they want out of their pilot groups, we stood up to the man and said no. We have a great EC and I'm confident if they say this is the best we can get than it is. In 4 years, when the economy is hopefully flourishing, we'll go for a great contract. But for now we'll take a good contract and use it as a stepping stone for the next. Bash it all you want, call us Mesa, whatever. We don't really care what your satisfaction level is.
CHQNewHire
Member
- Joined
- May 26, 2003
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- 13
I am just curious who the insensitive putz is that would even start a post like this...I don't think you are a CHQ pilot, but if you are...show some class. Same with those that are jumping on this like it is a great thing to gain from someone else's loss.
At the same token...to those of you who can think for yourselves, if this does happen...please don't hold it against the CHQ pilot group. We are not the ones negotiating for this business.
Regarding those who are bad mouthing the TA and CHQ pilot group...read it first...then ask yourself, in this market of concessions, spiraling ticket prices and revenues, just how in your right mind can you justify continued pilot salaries skyrocketing in the opposite direction?
And don't give me...aren't you worth more? Sorry guys, I don't get to decide what I am worth. It can be negotiated to a certain point, but ultimately it is what the market dictates, and right now the market sucks...and yet our EC still managed modest pay increases, along with tremendous strides in other areas. I would say...pretty **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** good work for these trying times.
At the same token...to those of you who can think for yourselves, if this does happen...please don't hold it against the CHQ pilot group. We are not the ones negotiating for this business.
Regarding those who are bad mouthing the TA and CHQ pilot group...read it first...then ask yourself, in this market of concessions, spiraling ticket prices and revenues, just how in your right mind can you justify continued pilot salaries skyrocketing in the opposite direction?
And don't give me...aren't you worth more? Sorry guys, I don't get to decide what I am worth. It can be negotiated to a certain point, but ultimately it is what the market dictates, and right now the market sucks...and yet our EC still managed modest pay increases, along with tremendous strides in other areas. I would say...pretty **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** good work for these trying times.
Carl_Everett
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cocknbull
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"Bye Bye Air Whiskey"
Sick Sick Sick
I see this thread has turned into who's balls are bigger, however I don't see anyone with a great contract. The fact is that regionals are regionals anywhere you go. Sure some contracts are better than others and some pilots agree to stupid stuff. The fact is regionals are there to make the majors money. If your company can't make them as much money as another than the other will takeover. As a result regional pilots will never get paid what they deserve. If you want a job that is good paying than support your major airline pilot brothers and support scope. Otherwise we will be stuck bitching on a regional jet forum the rest of our lives.
The other day I was at the bar and my friend was talking to a bubbly, unintelligent girl who is a Comair stewardess. She was blasting the pilots because she will make more her first year than her pilot boyfriend. I don't care who you are and how good your contract is; that is pathetic and that should never happen.
Sick Sick Sick
I see this thread has turned into who's balls are bigger, however I don't see anyone with a great contract. The fact is that regionals are regionals anywhere you go. Sure some contracts are better than others and some pilots agree to stupid stuff. The fact is regionals are there to make the majors money. If your company can't make them as much money as another than the other will takeover. As a result regional pilots will never get paid what they deserve. If you want a job that is good paying than support your major airline pilot brothers and support scope. Otherwise we will be stuck bitching on a regional jet forum the rest of our lives.
The other day I was at the bar and my friend was talking to a bubbly, unintelligent girl who is a Comair stewardess. She was blasting the pilots because she will make more her first year than her pilot boyfriend. I don't care who you are and how good your contract is; that is pathetic and that should never happen.
Gentlemen, here we go again tearing each other apart. What will it really take to make you all understand that we are simply playing the management game? They are winning because we collectively fire "blanks" at them, while we fire live ammunition at each other.
I'm not here to criticize the CHQ TA. I've read it and considering where you were, it is a significant improvement. Whether those improvements are enough to satisfy your needs is up to you all to decide. Your TA is not the problem.
The problem is that the viability of a business, particularly and airline, is not and should not be exclusively dependent on the compensation of its pilots or other employees. Eventually, it will not be possible to "lower wages" any more. What happens then?
What happens when everyone matches Mesa's bid for this business? Answer: Mesa makes a still lower bid. Then someone else matches that lower bid and bids even lower. Mesa matches and underbids again, etc., etc. At some point all of the bidders have presented "low bids" that do not allow them to operate at a profit, no matter what they pay the pilots or anybody else.
There is no purpose in being in business if you cannot operate at a profit. That is exactly why United is a failing business. Their business plan is designed for a dinosaur and dinosaurs are on the road to extinction. Low bids from Mesa, SKYW, AWAC or anybody else, including CHQ, are not going to "save United". Eventually all they will do is force the low bidders to join UAL in bankruptcy.
The management's of these "regional carriers" do not appear to be any brighter than the pilots of the regional carriers. Both of you seem to think that by "selling for less" or "working for less" you will somehow win the day. That is only true up to the point where your "low bid" makes you unprofitable. It is a stupid concept.
The entire "fee for departure" concept is also stupid. You cannot successfully run a business that is controlled completely by someone who has no interest whatever in the success of failure of your business. That is exactly what "fee for departure" does. When your "partner's" business fails (as in United and USAirways), your business fails too, and you have no control over the circumstances.
ACA management appears to have finally grasped that. The only problem is they are doing it at a very difficult time and the risk is great. I still think it is better than putting all the eggs in the baskets of a United or USAir Group. Perhaps it is a desperation move, but it seems to be the only viable option. Either they "fail" by giving the marbles to United, or they try to make in on their own without United. In my opinion, "fee for departure" was never a viable option. They're a bit late in figuring that out but I think they've made the right choice.
The reason Comair is now owned by Delta is "fee for departure". Comair management said no to that. Delta had two choices: buy Comair or watch it go the way that ACA is now going. They had the money so they bought it. United doesn't have the money and can't buy ACA. That's really the only difference.
If back when, the mangements of all the independent regionals had said no to fee for departure, they would either have been acquired by the mainline or gone independent. Some would not have been able to go independent and fallen by the wayside. Today, that same thing is happening. They are being run out of business by their failing mainline partners. Slowly but surely.
It really isn't ACA, SKYW, AWAC, CHQ, etc., that should be "out of business", it is United and USAirways. That well may happen yet.
We pilots, at the mainline or at the regional, are not going to save the day by working for free. Yes, it could be said that the mainline groups priced themselves out of the market, but that is not the case at any regional. The one thing we seem to "miss" at the regionals is the fact that our "concessions" no matter what we call them, simply cannot generate enough to bring about the recovery of a dieing dinosaur. Therefore, they are unnecessary.
Some of us seem to think that by working for less than a fair wage, we will somehow achieve expansion and growth. That may happen for a short time, at the expense of our fellow pilots at some other airline, but eventually we WILL all get to the point where there is no place to go. What happens then?
If the dinosaur collapses, where will we go? Today CHQ may thrive by taking AWAC's business (example only). SKYW may thrive by taking ACA's business. Mesa may thrive by taking everyone's business .... but for how long? What will any of them do if the bankrupt United should liquidate? What will SKYW do with all those airplanes if UAL fails? Who will pay the "new and improved" fees per departure, when there is no United? Who will pay when USAirways goes bankrupt for the second time and liquidates?
Let us not, any of us, be too quick to gloat at what we gain for a few months from the demise of another. The only thing that does is bring us closer to our own eventual demise.
The problems are not at the regionals. They are at the majors. Until those problems are fixed, concessionary packages at regional air lines will change nothing. Those of us that are "wholly owned" will sink or swim with the parent company. Those of us in the "fee for departure" business will do the same. When the parent has both wholly owned and subcontractors, it will sever the "fee for departure" group before it loses what it owns (except USAG which is not smart enough or too dumb and too broke to do better).
Unless you can do what ACA is attempting, your fate is totally dependent upon someone that has no particular interest in your survival and doesn't know how to guarantee its own survival. Concessions by regional pilots will not change any of that.
So go ahead and "out bid" each other if it makes you happy. You won't be happy for long. Apparently we regional types haven't seen that because it is exactly what we have "rushed" to do. The "happiness" that seems to be generated by the imagined success of the "concessions" (SKYW, MESA) is short lived.
Enjoy it while you can.
I'm not here to criticize the CHQ TA. I've read it and considering where you were, it is a significant improvement. Whether those improvements are enough to satisfy your needs is up to you all to decide. Your TA is not the problem.
The problem is that the viability of a business, particularly and airline, is not and should not be exclusively dependent on the compensation of its pilots or other employees. Eventually, it will not be possible to "lower wages" any more. What happens then?
What happens when everyone matches Mesa's bid for this business? Answer: Mesa makes a still lower bid. Then someone else matches that lower bid and bids even lower. Mesa matches and underbids again, etc., etc. At some point all of the bidders have presented "low bids" that do not allow them to operate at a profit, no matter what they pay the pilots or anybody else.
There is no purpose in being in business if you cannot operate at a profit. That is exactly why United is a failing business. Their business plan is designed for a dinosaur and dinosaurs are on the road to extinction. Low bids from Mesa, SKYW, AWAC or anybody else, including CHQ, are not going to "save United". Eventually all they will do is force the low bidders to join UAL in bankruptcy.
The management's of these "regional carriers" do not appear to be any brighter than the pilots of the regional carriers. Both of you seem to think that by "selling for less" or "working for less" you will somehow win the day. That is only true up to the point where your "low bid" makes you unprofitable. It is a stupid concept.
The entire "fee for departure" concept is also stupid. You cannot successfully run a business that is controlled completely by someone who has no interest whatever in the success of failure of your business. That is exactly what "fee for departure" does. When your "partner's" business fails (as in United and USAirways), your business fails too, and you have no control over the circumstances.
ACA management appears to have finally grasped that. The only problem is they are doing it at a very difficult time and the risk is great. I still think it is better than putting all the eggs in the baskets of a United or USAir Group. Perhaps it is a desperation move, but it seems to be the only viable option. Either they "fail" by giving the marbles to United, or they try to make in on their own without United. In my opinion, "fee for departure" was never a viable option. They're a bit late in figuring that out but I think they've made the right choice.
The reason Comair is now owned by Delta is "fee for departure". Comair management said no to that. Delta had two choices: buy Comair or watch it go the way that ACA is now going. They had the money so they bought it. United doesn't have the money and can't buy ACA. That's really the only difference.
If back when, the mangements of all the independent regionals had said no to fee for departure, they would either have been acquired by the mainline or gone independent. Some would not have been able to go independent and fallen by the wayside. Today, that same thing is happening. They are being run out of business by their failing mainline partners. Slowly but surely.
It really isn't ACA, SKYW, AWAC, CHQ, etc., that should be "out of business", it is United and USAirways. That well may happen yet.
We pilots, at the mainline or at the regional, are not going to save the day by working for free. Yes, it could be said that the mainline groups priced themselves out of the market, but that is not the case at any regional. The one thing we seem to "miss" at the regionals is the fact that our "concessions" no matter what we call them, simply cannot generate enough to bring about the recovery of a dieing dinosaur. Therefore, they are unnecessary.
Some of us seem to think that by working for less than a fair wage, we will somehow achieve expansion and growth. That may happen for a short time, at the expense of our fellow pilots at some other airline, but eventually we WILL all get to the point where there is no place to go. What happens then?
If the dinosaur collapses, where will we go? Today CHQ may thrive by taking AWAC's business (example only). SKYW may thrive by taking ACA's business. Mesa may thrive by taking everyone's business .... but for how long? What will any of them do if the bankrupt United should liquidate? What will SKYW do with all those airplanes if UAL fails? Who will pay the "new and improved" fees per departure, when there is no United? Who will pay when USAirways goes bankrupt for the second time and liquidates?
Let us not, any of us, be too quick to gloat at what we gain for a few months from the demise of another. The only thing that does is bring us closer to our own eventual demise.
The problems are not at the regionals. They are at the majors. Until those problems are fixed, concessionary packages at regional air lines will change nothing. Those of us that are "wholly owned" will sink or swim with the parent company. Those of us in the "fee for departure" business will do the same. When the parent has both wholly owned and subcontractors, it will sever the "fee for departure" group before it loses what it owns (except USAG which is not smart enough or too dumb and too broke to do better).
Unless you can do what ACA is attempting, your fate is totally dependent upon someone that has no particular interest in your survival and doesn't know how to guarantee its own survival. Concessions by regional pilots will not change any of that.
So go ahead and "out bid" each other if it makes you happy. You won't be happy for long. Apparently we regional types haven't seen that because it is exactly what we have "rushed" to do. The "happiness" that seems to be generated by the imagined success of the "concessions" (SKYW, MESA) is short lived.
Enjoy it while you can.
Don't be so quick to praise ACA. Friends of mine over there are telling me things are not going so well between Management and Union. Right now ACA would be flying narrow bodies at the lowest rates of any other narrow body operator. I call that lowering the bar, and so does the Union. Also all captains would get year one pay no matter how long they would be there. That, my friend, is pathetic.
I do agree with the above post, except that the lowering of the bar rest mostly with Southwest, Jet BLue and AirTran. The low cost carriers have undercut everyone.
Air Wiskey can have UAL, I just assume not get involved with ANOTHER bankrupt airline.
I do agree with the above post, except that the lowering of the bar rest mostly with Southwest, Jet BLue and AirTran. The low cost carriers have undercut everyone.
Air Wiskey can have UAL, I just assume not get involved with ANOTHER bankrupt airline.
Surpus ! is right. We as pilots continue to fly bigger airplanes for less and less.
It is not JetBlues or Airtrans fault. It is the us. We are willing to go fly there for less. If no pilot bothered to apply they would be forced to pay more. At our company they could not get enough IOE check airman becuase the over ride was to low. They raised it and all of sudden they had more pilots applying.
We can only go so low. There are alot of FO that want to quit at our company becuase the wages are to low. Unforunately if they quit we can hire some starry eyed flight instructor for less then the current FO.
We need to find a way that every company pays the same to fly a B-1900 to B-747. I don't mean that the 1900 driver should be paid the same as a 747 driver. But that if you fly 1900 for Mesa or Gulfstream the wages and benefits would be the same. This would take employee costs as a competive advantage. This would help prevent companies from using the we will only grow if you take a pay cut.
We are all in the same boat. We must fight together or be destroyed by our individual companies.
It is not JetBlues or Airtrans fault. It is the us. We are willing to go fly there for less. If no pilot bothered to apply they would be forced to pay more. At our company they could not get enough IOE check airman becuase the over ride was to low. They raised it and all of sudden they had more pilots applying.
We can only go so low. There are alot of FO that want to quit at our company becuase the wages are to low. Unforunately if they quit we can hire some starry eyed flight instructor for less then the current FO.
We need to find a way that every company pays the same to fly a B-1900 to B-747. I don't mean that the 1900 driver should be paid the same as a 747 driver. But that if you fly 1900 for Mesa or Gulfstream the wages and benefits would be the same. This would take employee costs as a competive advantage. This would help prevent companies from using the we will only grow if you take a pay cut.
We are all in the same boat. We must fight together or be destroyed by our individual companies.
treetopflyer
stewed screwed tatooed
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2002
- Posts
- 203
twaer,
yes its not the best between mgmnt and alpa right now but with the boss being in the house of lorenzo from the start, what do you expect.
did your friend also tell you that the NC told them to pound sand with thier offer? I keep in the loop and have not heard anything about captains being paid first year for the startup of the narrowbodies. in fact our contract allows for the aquisition of a new fleet type without pay rates associated with it. that sucks, but what may happen is that they stop negotiations and when they open up the section 6 at the end of 04/05(i think) and finish with the new contract everyone in the seat gets a fat bonus check.
interesting side note, if you go to the atlanticcoast.com site you can find the slide show with the business model and it shows that 95% of our routes are overlapping with USAIR. we are also predicting a max walk up fare of $199. so i think T&K must be trying to take out USAIR so the LCC's can own the east coast and then begin to move west..
but who knows,
yes its not the best between mgmnt and alpa right now but with the boss being in the house of lorenzo from the start, what do you expect.
did your friend also tell you that the NC told them to pound sand with thier offer? I keep in the loop and have not heard anything about captains being paid first year for the startup of the narrowbodies. in fact our contract allows for the aquisition of a new fleet type without pay rates associated with it. that sucks, but what may happen is that they stop negotiations and when they open up the section 6 at the end of 04/05(i think) and finish with the new contract everyone in the seat gets a fat bonus check.
interesting side note, if you go to the atlanticcoast.com site you can find the slide show with the business model and it shows that 95% of our routes are overlapping with USAIR. we are also predicting a max walk up fare of $199. so i think T&K must be trying to take out USAIR so the LCC's can own the east coast and then begin to move west..
but who knows,
treetopflyer
stewed screwed tatooed
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2002
- Posts
- 203
TWAER said:
Perhaps I am wrong, but I honestly don't think you can blame Southwest for declining pilot compensation. In my opinion, their wages are reasonable, their work rules are reasonable, their benefits are adequate (so they don't have and "A" plan -- they use a different method). The entire company is heavily unionized, and the employees appear to be treated fairly. More so than many of the "high dollar" majors. There IS a level at which compensation can become unreasonable --- both on the high side and the low side.
Air Tran also appears to provide reasonable compensation and work rules for the size aircraft they operate. I can't comment on JBlue pilot wages because I don't know what they are.
My point was that pilot wages are not the real problem, except in extreme cases on the high side, e.g., USAirways, United, American, NWA (pre concession) and maybe Delta.
The competition from the LCC's is not the result of lower wages. It stems from other efficiencies inherent in the niche markets that are their operation. They don't do the same things that the mega carriers do and what they do, they do in a different way. Their business plans are both different and better.
The big carriers have not adjusted to the changing market in a timely fashion and none of them, with the possible exception of Delta, seem to have any real ideas on how to do it.
The only thing SWA did was "build a better mousetrap". It's not patented. AirTran and JBlue have copied it. The others haven't even tried. They just waited for the inevitable decline.
Last edited:
General Lee
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 24, 2002
- Posts
- 20,442
Surplus1,
Let's look at the future. I see plenty of LCC competition coming up, and the Majors will have to change in ways to compete for that low fare paying customer. Not every customer will go for the lower fare, and some will go for the perks----aka business travelers. And, there will always be some sort of premium market for the Majors, along with the more expensive INTL tickets. Hub and spoke systems will continue to do well because they link small towns with bigger ones, and that will cost extra for passengers. But, there will absolutely be a low fare market, and some airlines are doing something about it--like Delta with Song. But, I see a lot of 100 seaters in the future--like the 100 that Jetblue is ordering, Airtran and their ubiquitous 717s(followed by 100 long range 737s), USAir and the larger number of EMB-170s (70 seaters for Mid Atlandtic)---and that is just on the East Coast. Throw in Southwest and other LCCs like Spirit, and the lower fares will be everywhere. So, where does that leave the RJ? Can someone compete with Jetblue and their upcoming $59 fares from NYC (JFK) to Savanah on a 50 seat RJ? Jetblue said that they had figured out 700 city pairings with the EMB-190 alone. Looking at the pictures of the spacious EMB-170, I think the EMB-190 will be larger and more roomy. So, what will happen to the 50 seaters? I can see them continuing the hub feed---from smaller towns to the larger hubs---but competing with the 717s from Airtran and the EMB-190s from Jetblue won't cut it. It will be a few years until this actually fully takes place, so we have a little time to plan. Apparently, (I heard this from a guy in recurrent last week....rumors you know......) Delta is very close to ordering a 100 seater, and the A318 MIGHT be in the lead. (How are we going to buy them? Good question----probably with pilot salaries) So, who will fly them at Delta? This is where it gets sticky. Comair and ASA pilots are seeing that future growth is probably in larger planes, and there is a limit according to our contract. They see that the days of huge growth and 50 seaters "saving Delta's a$$" is coming to the end, and that the only way to combat lower fares is to have more seats (100 vs 50) to cover the basic fixed costs. Sure, the pay for flying those new jets will be lower (apparently the A318 would have lower pay scales because it isn't in our current contract, and the 737 is---thus the A318 could win out), but there might be a lot of them ordered. The Comair and ASA pilots will want more 70 seaters, and they may get some more--but the clear growth in the future will include more seats at lower prices. If the company plans to get rid of the current 100 seaters (737-200s with first class seating), then it is natural for mainline to fly the newer ones, and that is what Dalpa has said will happen. These changing markets are complex, and the upstart Song and future 100 seaters will hopefully combat those LCC's successfully. Atleast Delta is trying to do something----which cannot be said about some of the other Majors.
Bye Bye--General Lee
Let's look at the future. I see plenty of LCC competition coming up, and the Majors will have to change in ways to compete for that low fare paying customer. Not every customer will go for the lower fare, and some will go for the perks----aka business travelers. And, there will always be some sort of premium market for the Majors, along with the more expensive INTL tickets. Hub and spoke systems will continue to do well because they link small towns with bigger ones, and that will cost extra for passengers. But, there will absolutely be a low fare market, and some airlines are doing something about it--like Delta with Song. But, I see a lot of 100 seaters in the future--like the 100 that Jetblue is ordering, Airtran and their ubiquitous 717s(followed by 100 long range 737s), USAir and the larger number of EMB-170s (70 seaters for Mid Atlandtic)---and that is just on the East Coast. Throw in Southwest and other LCCs like Spirit, and the lower fares will be everywhere. So, where does that leave the RJ? Can someone compete with Jetblue and their upcoming $59 fares from NYC (JFK) to Savanah on a 50 seat RJ? Jetblue said that they had figured out 700 city pairings with the EMB-190 alone. Looking at the pictures of the spacious EMB-170, I think the EMB-190 will be larger and more roomy. So, what will happen to the 50 seaters? I can see them continuing the hub feed---from smaller towns to the larger hubs---but competing with the 717s from Airtran and the EMB-190s from Jetblue won't cut it. It will be a few years until this actually fully takes place, so we have a little time to plan. Apparently, (I heard this from a guy in recurrent last week....rumors you know......) Delta is very close to ordering a 100 seater, and the A318 MIGHT be in the lead. (How are we going to buy them? Good question----probably with pilot salaries) So, who will fly them at Delta? This is where it gets sticky. Comair and ASA pilots are seeing that future growth is probably in larger planes, and there is a limit according to our contract. They see that the days of huge growth and 50 seaters "saving Delta's a$$" is coming to the end, and that the only way to combat lower fares is to have more seats (100 vs 50) to cover the basic fixed costs. Sure, the pay for flying those new jets will be lower (apparently the A318 would have lower pay scales because it isn't in our current contract, and the 737 is---thus the A318 could win out), but there might be a lot of them ordered. The Comair and ASA pilots will want more 70 seaters, and they may get some more--but the clear growth in the future will include more seats at lower prices. If the company plans to get rid of the current 100 seaters (737-200s with first class seating), then it is natural for mainline to fly the newer ones, and that is what Dalpa has said will happen. These changing markets are complex, and the upstart Song and future 100 seaters will hopefully combat those LCC's successfully. Atleast Delta is trying to do something----which cannot be said about some of the other Majors.
Bye Bye--General Lee
Last edited:
CHQNewHire
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- Joined
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- Posts
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General Lee
Well-known member
- Joined
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- Posts
- 20,442
I have a question for all you pilots. Do you all take joy in watching other pilots loose their jobs?
I read this board and find it amazing how a majority don't support their counterparts. If you want to know why the union is failing, whether it be ALPA or Teamsters, is because everyone is out for themselves and not for the team. The reason regional will never be paid what they deserve is because the majors sold them out years ago. Now the regionals are selling out the majors.
I just hope all you pilots who have never experienced furlough, never have to, it sucks.
I can't believe you wish for USAir and United to go under. Their are alot of good pilots and people at these companies. Their are EX Pan Am and EAL. They have lost all of it once and now you wish it upon them again. Remember management makes the rules at these companies, not the pilots. Yes their are a few arrognant ones, but a vast majority are good people. I for one don't wish anything bad on them.
I hope all you pilots wishing ill will on those that might loose their pension, 2 years from retirement never experience this.
Remember what comes around goes around. Majors screwed the regionals, now they are getting their taste. I hope the regionals don't get the pay back of screwing the majors. Either way no one wins, as is being proven.
Rant over. Go back to just reading.
Iflyhigh
I read this board and find it amazing how a majority don't support their counterparts. If you want to know why the union is failing, whether it be ALPA or Teamsters, is because everyone is out for themselves and not for the team. The reason regional will never be paid what they deserve is because the majors sold them out years ago. Now the regionals are selling out the majors.
I just hope all you pilots who have never experienced furlough, never have to, it sucks.
I can't believe you wish for USAir and United to go under. Their are alot of good pilots and people at these companies. Their are EX Pan Am and EAL. They have lost all of it once and now you wish it upon them again. Remember management makes the rules at these companies, not the pilots. Yes their are a few arrognant ones, but a vast majority are good people. I for one don't wish anything bad on them.
I hope all you pilots wishing ill will on those that might loose their pension, 2 years from retirement never experience this.
Remember what comes around goes around. Majors screwed the regionals, now they are getting their taste. I hope the regionals don't get the pay back of screwing the majors. Either way no one wins, as is being proven.
Rant over. Go back to just reading.
Iflyhigh
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