Breaking into the corporate world

[JohnDoe]

<<I know a guy recently hired at a F100 company that did exactly that>>

I'm not calling you a liar, but... You are telling me that the guy HAD a 91 Corporate job that he left for a 121 job and got furloughed, AND then a F100 company hired him????

I guess I am calling you a liar (actually I think you are mistaken). Either that or he got a job with one of these companies that can't keep a pilot more than a year (or just got a Legacy and are looking to save money on an FO).

But a furloughed 121 guy who left a previous corporate job getting hired at a F100 company NFW. You prove to me otherwise and I owe you a beer.

Of course you don't want to believe it. Otherwise, it blows a hole right through your little theory on "how it is." Jet2work has spoken.......

 

[On Your Six]

I went from the 737-300/500 at UAL right after 9/11 to a new flight department that is now flying a Global Express. Attitude is everything. Good networking and a dose of humility can help significantly.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

I dont think there are any "golden" rules...

121 guys can always make the transition. Getting an interview? yeah, chances are much greater if they know someone who is willing to vouch that they can make the move. Getting the job? - thats on the individual once he gets his foot in the door.

Often at large departments, a set number of people are interviewed for a single position (say 8-10) Some are from references, some simply from a resume pile. Once you get the interview, its really 100% up to you, 121,91,135 whatever.....

Departments still want to hire the right person, not simply the one with time in type, references, etc...

Good Luck.

 

[Capt1124]

BoilerUp,

I went from nonsked 727 cargo to 135. Sort of a lateral move, something I fell into. Things that were similar, last minute chaos and the crew ultimately being responsible for making things happen. Things that were different, passengers. No question it can be done, but the question is why. For me it was an overall improvement in lifestyle.

For the original poster, if you have glass cockpit airliner experience, there are lots of jobs overseas. That may be a better alternative, depending on your personal circumstances. If you are single you can have a great adventure and get valuable qualifications for airline jobs when things turn around. Otherwise maybe a Part 121 supplemental. Unless you are interested in corporate as a long term career option, I would make it last on your list of "I need a job right now" jobs.

I'm sure many 121 pilots care about their passengers, but it's not really their job and not really their problem. And I'm sure the reinforced door seals out the sound of screams from the back. (I'm sorry, I've been flying American a lot recently. I've concluded the miles are not worth it.) Think about this- on most corporate aircraft, the cockpit door is only closed when the passengers want it closed.

Corporate flying can be great or it can be terrible. For some pilots it's great and for other pilots it's terrible. But, fundamentally, it's *different*. I don't think non-corporate pilots really understand to what extent.

 

[CapnVegetto]

1124 makes a GREAT point. The best thing about those overseas jobs is the fact that you don't pay tax. BIG $$$$$$$$$$$$. If you can deal with it for a year or two, you're going to pocket a TON of money and get a lot of valuable experience to boot.

I say 'deal with it', but things are so different over there it's just unreal. Unlike in America, where most management are thinking 'how can we get this done as cheap as possible' management over there thinks 'how can I attract and retain the best people'. The salary differences, work rules, relationship between management, how you are treated, etc. is like night and day vs. over here. You are not a liability, you are an asset.

I missed the boat on going overseas for a year or 2 b/c I got sucked into a marriage/baby on the way. Screw my career anyway, that changes everything, and I wouldn't trade it for anything in the world!! All I'm sayin is if that is an option for you, look into it. Big $$$$$$$ and awesome treatment.

 

[svcta]

As one who did the transition from regional carrier to corporate (as others who posted above) it's all about the attitude. Here's the problem: You'd have a hard time finding a flight department manager that hasn't been burned or doesn't closely know someone who hasn't been burned by an "ex-airline" guy that scrambled when he was recalled or when his dream airline started hiring again.

Stereotypes exist for a reason. And this stereotype could cost big dollars. The other, more intangible aspect is that it's just a fact (come on, admit it) that airline guys simply love to bitch. I root for the airline guys all day long when it's time to hire, but there are some that only see the stereotype. And they don't want to take a chance or give someone the time to prove themselves, usually because that involves an expensive type rating and it sometimes takes a long time to get a large corporation to complete the hiring process, so it's important to be sure when offering a job. And when you've got your little department all staffed and everyone gets along and works to the common goal, recognizing what they've got and how perfect the balance is, etc. etc.....the last thing you want is to poison the well with a malcontent.

At the end of the day, we can train just about anyone to fly the airplanes the way that we fly them. The big question is: DO WE WANT THIS GUY WITH US ON AN OVERNIGHT? Some of us pay more attention to how an applicant treats the waitress at lunch than just about anything else. Be cool, be fun, be professional, and for the love of God, don't ever, EVER talk about how they do it at the airlines.

 

[BigPappa]

Jet2Work you sound like an individual with a chip on his/her shoulder. Why would going from Corp. to 121 Regional be bad judgment? I've done it and it payed of triple for me. Not all corporate gigs are great. That being said for the person that posted this thread: Network have a good attitude and go out there and work the magic and you'll get the job. Remember your strengths and be able to show or talk about them to your potential new employer (what can you bring to the table).

 

[semperfido]

<<I know a guy recently hired at a F100 company that did exactly that>>

I'm not calling you a liar, but... You are telling me that the guy HAD a 91 Corporate job that he left for a 121 job and got furloughed, AND then a F100 company hired him????

.

Stranger things have happened. I know a Guy that left a Fortune 100 Company for UAL, was furloughed and then hired back by the same Company. It can happen.

 

[jet2work]

Of course you don't want to believe it. Otherwise, it blows a hole right through your little theory on "how it is." Jet2work has spoken.......

No my friend...YOU stand corrected. Read his post.

<<My friend had a 91 job where he progressed from a C90 to a B200 to a CE550. He left that job to fly an regional jet, as very few majors were hiring at the time and he felt 121 experience was the one thing missing from his resume. A few years later, as an RJ captain (never furloughed) he was hired at a F100 company flying a common midsize jet at compensation well in line with Stanton and NBAA Jet III numbers. >>>

His friend was not FURLOUGHED. He left a 121 flying job a few years ago (during the halcyon days of airline hiring). So I stand by my original post about corporate operator hiring a FURLOUGHED pilot. Has it ever happened? Yes, and many of those companies got burned when the guys got recalled. The last two rounds of hiring at my company, any guy who was furloughed, their resume got $hi7canned.

There are tons of great people out there from the 121 world. I have a lot of college buddies who have been with the majors for more than 10 years. I would be happy to fly with them, and them with me. My initial response to the first poster was to enlighten his as to why the "Rumor of the 121 Stink" exists.

Ask yourself, if you are making 100K a year at a corporate job and your old job comes calling making 150K a year, fixed schedule, etc.. are you gonna go back? I know many if not most would. That is the problem you face, when interviewing with the Dept. Manager. When he askes you that question (and he will) are you gonna lie? Are you gonna tell the truth. And, is he going to believe you?

Good luck to all job seekers.

Now I have spoken !!!

 

[jet2work]

Jet2Work you sound like an individual with a chip on his/her shoulder.

You got that right Beotch! (just kidding)


<<Why would going from Corp. to 121 Regional be bad judgment? I've done it and it payed of triple for me.>>

Well, that comment was in parethesis, which was designed to make it TIC (tongue in cheek). But since we are on the subject. WTF kinda "corporate job" did you have where you made 7K a year??? The starting salary at most regionals is $20K. So triple 7 and you made 21K. Please warn others about this corporate job.

<<Not all corporate gigs are great.>>

Truer words were never spoken.


<<That being said for the person that posted this thread: Network have a good attitude and go out there and work the magic and you'll get the job. Remember your strengths and be able to show or talk about them to your potential new employer (what can you bring to the table).

>>>

Until just then. You are right. Obstacles are meant to be overcome. Good luck.

 

[BigPappa]

You can make close to or more than a 100K with some seniority at a reputable Regional. My experience is that most pt 91 operator know that they can pay you less because there is no Union, and there are usually 20 pilots waiting to take the job from you (usually they'll wait until you go on vacation).

 

[AA717driver]

As has been determined here (a multitude of times) there is no one-size-fits-all solution to an aviation career.

What if said furloughed guy went to a crappy corporate department? It sounds from a few people that, once you get hired by a corporate flight department, you have entered into an 'indentured servitude' contract. You can never leave, regardless of the situation.

What if said furloughed guy got into the airlines when things were rolling and it looked like there was no end in sight to the good times? Oops! Not what was advertised.

This 'pettiness' goes both ways. A friend who was on a leave of absence was considering leaving his corporate job to return to a legacy (because one of his managers was a loon...). His Chief Pilot wanted him to come in "to talk about his future" before coming back to the airline. Bull! They had experienced some people coming back from furlough, getting trained and typed on the 737 and leaving for another company. My friend stayed where he was.

Airlines used to be where the QOL and big bucks were. Then it was the Fracs. Now, it's 91. Who knows where it will go from here but are you going to trash people for wanting to get the best deal available? Employers certainly have no problem playing that angle. Anyone here been lowballed on pay and bennies just because there's a pilot glut or you're living in a cheap region of the country?

Again, you cannot pigeonhole anyone in this business. Doing so is simply perpetuating old prejudices. TC

 

[BoilerUP]

You can make close to or more than a 100K with some seniority at a reputable Regional. My experience is that most pt 91 operator know that they can pay you less because there is no Union, and there are usually 20 pilots waiting to take the job from you (usually they'll wait until you go on vacation).

The bolded part is among the most ludicrous statements I've ever read here on FI...

Sure you can make $100k+ at a regional...as a captain, after 5-10 years of longevity in which you probably worked at least half all major holidays, all the while being at the whims of a mainline partner whipsawing their Express/Connection carriers against each other for every little scrap of flying.

 

[BigPappa]

No different than getting whipsawed at a Pt. 91 job. Boss to pilot (Pt. 91): "Well Joe can do it cheaper". You know the rest. Do what works for you and don't forget to have fun at your job, because too many pilots forget to do so!

 

[Freight Dog]

A wise man once said - mind is like a parachute; it works best when open.

It applies to both sides - former airline pilots hunting for jobs in general aviation, and also to department managers/chief pilots/DO's and others in charge of pilot hiring.