Breaking into the corporate world

[taxi1wire]

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Like it has been said consistantly here, it's the attitude you bring. I am a former Legacy guy who was given a break back in 04 after the "Great United Airlines" kicked me to the curb in 03'. (Oh yea I'm still bitter, but thats a work in progress-gettin betta!).
I remember having to sell myself to two purely corporate guys when I interviewed for my current job. They were very leary of a 121 guy, but in the end I was able to convince them to give me a try. This was for the right seat in a CJ2 and a C-650. It actually wasn't hard because I was honest, had a solid resume with solid quals and was not above emptying the honeypot or coffee pot on the CJ2. I knew how to file a flightplan and also knew how to work a small handvac.
But even before that it's networking every lead no matter how slight. I found this job mentioned above by a friend who was also furloughed UAL who turned it down......Not enough starting pay according to him. Knowing what industry standard pay is commensurate with your quals is a biggie also. But then again, I feel my success was largely timing and LUCK!
So fast forward to today and I am a Challenger 604 and G200 Captain with 6 types all paid for as we steadily increased our jet size. Part 91 and 4 of the greatest guys to fly with. I count myself EXTREMELY lucky to have found this job, but then again, we have made in into what it is today. We are all ex-121 guys....2 quit US after 17 years, I am UAL , one is DAL. And we bring all of the 121 flight experience + the personal passenger service we were never able to bring to our bosses. And they love it.
I hope this motivates you, because these jobs are out there...just got to dig around and get a break, I guess.


A thousand thanks Lee

 

[jet2work]

<<I know a guy recently hired at a F100 company that did exactly that>>

I'm not calling you a liar, but... You are telling me that the guy HAD a 91 Corporate job that he left for a 121 job and got furloughed, AND then a F100 company hired him????

I guess I am calling you a liar (actually I think you are mistaken). Either that or he got a job with one of these companies that can't keep a pilot more than a year (or just got a Legacy and are looking to save money on an FO).

I think that some F500 companies WOULD DEFINITELY hire a young guy who went 121 right after college (after all they hire w/500TT right into jets) and found out that it wasn't all it was cracked up to be. After a few years and a couple thousand hours of jet time a corporate operator MIGHT hire him if he was a good guy looking to spend more time at home with his family etc.....His biggest impediment would be no/low PIC time.

But a furloughed 121 guy who left a previous corporate job getting hired at a F100 company NFW. You prove to me otherwise and I owe you a beer.

Most F100 or F500 jobs are filled by friends, or friends of friends.

Once again, my best wishes to all job seekers out there.

 

[imisscorplife]

<<Ive been in 91 corp and 121 regional and I have flown with many good people on both sides...>>

Given your screen name I'm guessing that you are no longer a corporate pilot.

Given that you have worked both 91 and 121, I'm guessing that you worked a corporate job and left it to pursue the "brass ring" of an airline job. No?

This is a familiar and tired story for many corporate operator. We hire you. We like you. You like us. We TYPE you. You leave because flying a 747 is the only thing that you think will impress the ladies (I'm just kidding).

You got a Citation type. Again, I am guessing that your employer paid for it. Given your low total time, I'm guessing that maybe they even gave you a break in the business. In the good ol' days many pilots flew for many thousands of hours before getting a jet job - some never did (and that's OK - a King Air is a GREAT aiplane).

Lastly, you probably used that type to prove your worth to a "Commuter / Regional" airline.

Why on Earth would a corporate operator hire a guy who left a corporate job to fly for a regional (poor judgement).

Please do not take this as a personal assault against you. This is just a guy on the other side trying to explain to you why you will not be getting any responses to the resumes that you send to corporate flight departments. We get so many of them, that it has become sport around the office.

I wish all of you luck in finding employment.

Actually Im in transition back to the corporate world with a great company. I do not have a type in the Citation which is why I left a previous employer for 121 regional. They were promising me FSI for their Citation 7 and CJ1 (right seat) for months and months, finally after a year of promises and nothing I made the jump to Skywest. I love Skywest and would have stayed there, but I was approached with an offer that I coud not refuse, thanks to my lawyer and his CEO friends! My lawyer is someone I flew a few years ago on a charter trip in a C182rg. We kept in touch over the years and when this position opened up at his CEO friends company, he thought of me. 2 interviews later, I got an offer. Its all about your attitude and networking. Ive worked my a$$ off and will continue to. Assumption = Guessing

 

[BoilerUP]

I'm not calling you a liar, but... You are telling me that the guy HAD a 91 Corporate job that he left for a 121 job and got furloughed, AND then a F100 company hired him????

I guess I am calling you a liar (actually I think you are mistaken). Either that or he got a job with one of these companies that can't keep a pilot more than a year (or just got a Legacy and are looking to save money on an FO).

But a furloughed 121 guy who left a previous corporate job getting hired at a F100 company NFW. You prove to me otherwise and I owe you a beer.

I've got no reason whatsoever to lie to you, and believe me, I'm NOT mistaken on the details.

My friend had a 91 job where he progressed from a C90 to a B200 to a CE550. He left that job to fly an regional jet, as very few majors were hiring at the time and he felt 121 experience was the one thing missing from his resume. A few years later, as an RJ captain (never furloughed) he was hired at a F100 company flying a common midsize jet at compensation well in line with Stanton and NBAA Jet III numbers.

The pilot he was hired to replace had been with said company 20+ years and was retiring.

Most F100 or F500 jobs are filled by friends, or friends of friends.

While the value of networking is undeniable, I know a different guy hired at the same F100 company a couple years ago that didn't know a soul when he got the initial call that he was under consideration.

 

[JohnDoe]

.....

 

[JohnDoe]

<<I know a guy recently hired at a F100 company that did exactly that>>

I'm not calling you a liar, but... You are telling me that the guy HAD a 91 Corporate job that he left for a 121 job and got furloughed, AND then a F100 company hired him????

I guess I am calling you a liar (actually I think you are mistaken). Either that or he got a job with one of these companies that can't keep a pilot more than a year (or just got a Legacy and are looking to save money on an FO).

But a furloughed 121 guy who left a previous corporate job getting hired at a F100 company NFW. You prove to me otherwise and I owe you a beer.

Of course you don't want to believe it. Otherwise, it blows a hole right through your little theory on "how it is." Jet2work has spoken.......

 

[On Your Six]

I went from the 737-300/500 at UAL right after 9/11 to a new flight department that is now flying a Global Express. Attitude is everything. Good networking and a dose of humility can help significantly.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

I dont think there are any "golden" rules...

121 guys can always make the transition. Getting an interview? yeah, chances are much greater if they know someone who is willing to vouch that they can make the move. Getting the job? - thats on the individual once he gets his foot in the door.

Often at large departments, a set number of people are interviewed for a single position (say 8-10) Some are from references, some simply from a resume pile. Once you get the interview, its really 100% up to you, 121,91,135 whatever.....

Departments still want to hire the right person, not simply the one with time in type, references, etc...

Good Luck.

 

[Capt1124]

BoilerUp,

I went from nonsked 727 cargo to 135. Sort of a lateral move, something I fell into. Things that were similar, last minute chaos and the crew ultimately being responsible for making things happen. Things that were different, passengers. No question it can be done, but the question is why. For me it was an overall improvement in lifestyle.

For the original poster, if you have glass cockpit airliner experience, there are lots of jobs overseas. That may be a better alternative, depending on your personal circumstances. If you are single you can have a great adventure and get valuable qualifications for airline jobs when things turn around. Otherwise maybe a Part 121 supplemental. Unless you are interested in corporate as a long term career option, I would make it last on your list of "I need a job right now" jobs.

I'm sure many 121 pilots care about their passengers, but it's not really their job and not really their problem. And I'm sure the reinforced door seals out the sound of screams from the back. (I'm sorry, I've been flying American a lot recently. I've concluded the miles are not worth it.) Think about this- on most corporate aircraft, the cockpit door is only closed when the passengers want it closed.

Corporate flying can be great or it can be terrible. For some pilots it's great and for other pilots it's terrible. But, fundamentally, it's *different*. I don't think non-corporate pilots really understand to what extent.

 

[CapnVegetto]

1124 makes a GREAT point. The best thing about those overseas jobs is the fact that you don't pay tax. BIG $$$$$$$$$$$$. If you can deal with it for a year or two, you're going to pocket a TON of money and get a lot of valuable experience to boot.

I say 'deal with it', but things are so different over there it's just unreal. Unlike in America, where most management are thinking 'how can we get this done as cheap as possible' management over there thinks 'how can I attract and retain the best people'. The salary differences, work rules, relationship between management, how you are treated, etc. is like night and day vs. over here. You are not a liability, you are an asset.

I missed the boat on going overseas for a year or 2 b/c I got sucked into a marriage/baby on the way. Screw my career anyway, that changes everything, and I wouldn't trade it for anything in the world!! All I'm sayin is if that is an option for you, look into it. Big $$$$$$$ and awesome treatment.