Breaking into the corporate world

[27 driver]

I am about to get furloughed again. I am tired of starting over in the 121 world and would like to find a corporate gig. I have been told that many corporate gigs won't look at people that have the "121 stink" on them. Is this true. My question is how do I get started. I plan on making the rounds to all the local FBO's. Any other suggestions. I need a job bad. I have plenty of international experience and glass as well. Help a cracker out.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

I am about to get furloughed again. I am tired of starting over in the 121 world and would like to find a corporate gig. I have been told that many corporate gigs won't look at people that have the "121 stink" on them. Is this true. My question is how do I get started. I plan on making the rounds to all the local FBO's. Any other suggestions. I need a job bad. I have plenty of international experience and glass as well. Help a cracker out.

NO, the 121 "stink" wont keep you from getting a corporate job at all....just dont bring the bad 121 attitude and customer service with you the interview....common sense stuff. The ones who claim this "stink" is what's keeping them from breaking into corporate are usually in denial.

2 of the last 2 newhires we had were 121 pilots. They are making the transition pretty well.

Start networking like crazy, join all the other corporate flying boards, they are about $10/year and will provide you with a ton of information.

I'd also call before visiting anyone these days, sometimes drop-ins are not welcome...I have seen it many times.

Good Luck!

 

[400A]

I am about to get furloughed again. I am tired of starting over in the 121 world and would like to find a corporate gig. I have been told that many corporate gigs won't look at people that have the "121 stink" on them. Is this true. My question is how do I get started. I plan on making the rounds to all the local FBO's. Any other suggestions. I need a job bad. I have plenty of international experience and glass as well. Help a cracker out.

From what I have seen, It will not keep you from transitioning, but it will slow you. As G200 said, attitude is everything. No all day union complaining in the cockpit. There are some on are field that 121 is the kiss of death, others may pounce on your international experience.

Fractionals do not mind at all.

What ever you do, don't say "Help a Cracker out" at the airport or near any HR person.:laugh:


Good Luck!

 

[jet2work]

Another consideration is that many 121 guys that have been furloughed in the past and claim to have found Fortune 500 religion have bolted back into the arms of the Devil whenever he came a callin'.

That is to say that your fellow furloughed airline brothers gave the same story as you whenever they were laid off. A corporate operator hired them and sent them to school (20K to 45K for a jet type) and a few years later, when the guy gets recalled, he's gone.

Well, this is America, and that is his right. But fool me twice....... I think the biggest impediment to a 121 guy getting a corporate job (besides the union mentality, and lack of customer service thought) is the fear that the guy is only using this job to get him through the furlough. Why should we spend the time and money on him???

Lastly (and just a complete ramble without any empirical evidence to back it up...) I have met precious few airline pilots who were not absolutely obsessed with experiencing the real estate between a flight attendant's legs. I know guys who bid their schedules based on who the FA's were. Well, in the corporate world, that is a huge liability. You might be able to get away with that in a 121 environment, but in a corporate flight department that is poison.

Good luck.

 

[Capt1124]

I hear you saying that your airline job is down the tubes, and you need a job, so you would like to find a corporate job. Apparently because no airlines are hiring now and you want someting to pay the bills until job cycle turns upward again. Not to be harsh, but why is that my problem?

Awhile back when times were better, every once in awhile a regional pilot would ask "How do I get into corporate?" Apparently feeling sick of the grind, and without upgrade prospects at the regional, a nice cushy corporate gig might be more fun. Again why is that my problem?

I used to get resumes from retired airline captains with 20,000 hours who were applying to fly a light corporate jet. I had trouble believing a 65 year old guy like this really is of the mindset to do all the chores required to keep an operation like this going.

In 121 the customer is nothing, zero, a threat on a bad day, an annoyance on a good day. In corporate the customer is not always right, the customer is not even king, the customer is *GOD*.

If you want an aviation department manager to offer you a job, he will have to believe you will make his life easier rather than harder, not embarrass him, and not cost the company a bunch of money.

 

[learflyer]

It's amazing all of these "I want to quit 121, and break into the corporate world" posts over the last two years or so. This is on all of the message boards. I remember when corporate or even fractional guys (most airline guys never even heard of NJA) were frowned upon. I remember one specific instance where a Delta Captain asked me when I'm "coming over." And "you have a vested interest to come here." Good luck, and I hope you find something.

 

[BoilerUP]

Capt1124, may I ask if your 727 experience was 121 or 91, and if you did that before or after getting your Lear and Westwind types?

Respectfully,

A former regional airline FO turned corporate pilot

 

[imisscorplife]

I hear you saying that your airline job is down the tubes, and you need a job, so you would like to find a corporate job. Apparently because no airlines are hiring now and you want someting to pay the bills until job cycle turns upward again. Not to be harsh, but why is that my problem?

Awhile back when times were better, every once in awhile a regional pilot would ask "How do I get into corporate?" Apparently feeling sick of the grind, and without upgrade prospects at the regional, a nice cushy corporate gig might be more fun. Again why is that my problem?

I used to get resumes from retired airline captains with 20,000 hours who were applying to fly a light corporate jet. I had trouble believing a 65 year old guy like this really is of the mindset to do all the chores required to keep an operation like this going.

In 121 the customer is nothing, zero, a threat on a bad day, an annoyance on a good day. In corporate the customer is not always right, the customer is not even king, the customer is *GOD*.

If you want an aviation department manager to offer you a job, he will have to believe you will make his life easier rather than harder, not embarrass him, and not cost the company a bunch of money.

Please stop assuming that all 121 pilots think like this! A majority care about their passengers and make an extra effort in customer service to say hi and meet/greet people as they come on the plane. Also you might be dealing with 50-300 passengers on 1 flight vs. 1-15 on a corp flight. So obviously its all about quality vs. quantity in corporate and 121 has to make sacrifices sometimes. Ive been in 91 corp and 121 regional and I have flown with many good people on both sides, but trust me, there are a$$holes wherever you go. Attitude is key no matter where or what you fly!! Good luck with a new job!! We need to support each other!!

 

[jet2work]

<<Ive been in 91 corp and 121 regional and I have flown with many good people on both sides...>>

Given your screen name I'm guessing that you are no longer a corporate pilot.

Given that you have worked both 91 and 121, I'm guessing that you worked a corporate job and left it to pursue the "brass ring" of an airline job. No?

This is a familiar and tired story for many corporate operator. We hire you. We like you. You like us. We TYPE you. You leave because flying a 747 is the only thing that you think will impress the ladies (I'm just kidding).

You got a Citation type. Again, I am guessing that your employer paid for it. Given your low total time, I'm guessing that maybe they even gave you a break in the business. In the good ol' days many pilots flew for many thousands of hours before getting a jet job - some never did (and that's OK - a King Air is a GREAT aiplane).

Lastly, you probably used that type to prove your worth to a "Commuter / Regional" airline.

Why on Earth would a corporate operator hire a guy who left a corporate job to fly for a regional (poor judgement).

Please do not take this as a personal assault against you. This is just a guy on the other side trying to explain to you why you will not be getting any responses to the resumes that you send to corporate flight departments. We get so many of them, that it has become sport around the office.

I wish all of you luck in finding employment.

 

[BoilerUP]

Why on Earth would a corporate operator hire a guy who left a corporate job to fly for a regional (poor judgement).

I know a guy recently hired at a F100 company that did exactly that...

 

[taxi1wire]

More

Like it has been said consistantly here, it's the attitude you bring. I am a former Legacy guy who was given a break back in 04 after the "Great United Airlines" kicked me to the curb in 03'. (Oh yea I'm still bitter, but thats a work in progress-gettin betta!).
I remember having to sell myself to two purely corporate guys when I interviewed for my current job. They were very leary of a 121 guy, but in the end I was able to convince them to give me a try. This was for the right seat in a CJ2 and a C-650. It actually wasn't hard because I was honest, had a solid resume with solid quals and was not above emptying the honeypot or coffee pot on the CJ2. I knew how to file a flightplan and also knew how to work a small handvac.
But even before that it's networking every lead no matter how slight. I found this job mentioned above by a friend who was also furloughed UAL who turned it down......Not enough starting pay according to him. Knowing what industry standard pay is commensurate with your quals is a biggie also. But then again, I feel my success was largely timing and LUCK!
So fast forward to today and I am a Challenger 604 and G200 Captain with 6 types all paid for as we steadily increased our jet size. Part 91 and 4 of the greatest guys to fly with. I count myself EXTREMELY lucky to have found this job, but then again, we have made in into what it is today. We are all ex-121 guys....2 quit US after 17 years, I am UAL , one is DAL. And we bring all of the 121 flight experience + the personal passenger service we were never able to bring to our bosses. And they love it.
I hope this motivates you, because these jobs are out there...just got to dig around and get a break, I guess.


A thousand thanks Lee

 

[jet2work]

<<I know a guy recently hired at a F100 company that did exactly that>>

I'm not calling you a liar, but... You are telling me that the guy HAD a 91 Corporate job that he left for a 121 job and got furloughed, AND then a F100 company hired him????

I guess I am calling you a liar (actually I think you are mistaken). Either that or he got a job with one of these companies that can't keep a pilot more than a year (or just got a Legacy and are looking to save money on an FO).

I think that some F500 companies WOULD DEFINITELY hire a young guy who went 121 right after college (after all they hire w/500TT right into jets) and found out that it wasn't all it was cracked up to be. After a few years and a couple thousand hours of jet time a corporate operator MIGHT hire him if he was a good guy looking to spend more time at home with his family etc.....His biggest impediment would be no/low PIC time.

But a furloughed 121 guy who left a previous corporate job getting hired at a F100 company NFW. You prove to me otherwise and I owe you a beer.

Most F100 or F500 jobs are filled by friends, or friends of friends.

Once again, my best wishes to all job seekers out there.

 

[imisscorplife]

<<Ive been in 91 corp and 121 regional and I have flown with many good people on both sides...>>

Given your screen name I'm guessing that you are no longer a corporate pilot.

Given that you have worked both 91 and 121, I'm guessing that you worked a corporate job and left it to pursue the "brass ring" of an airline job. No?

This is a familiar and tired story for many corporate operator. We hire you. We like you. You like us. We TYPE you. You leave because flying a 747 is the only thing that you think will impress the ladies (I'm just kidding).

You got a Citation type. Again, I am guessing that your employer paid for it. Given your low total time, I'm guessing that maybe they even gave you a break in the business. In the good ol' days many pilots flew for many thousands of hours before getting a jet job - some never did (and that's OK - a King Air is a GREAT aiplane).

Lastly, you probably used that type to prove your worth to a "Commuter / Regional" airline.

Why on Earth would a corporate operator hire a guy who left a corporate job to fly for a regional (poor judgement).

Please do not take this as a personal assault against you. This is just a guy on the other side trying to explain to you why you will not be getting any responses to the resumes that you send to corporate flight departments. We get so many of them, that it has become sport around the office.

I wish all of you luck in finding employment.

Actually Im in transition back to the corporate world with a great company. I do not have a type in the Citation which is why I left a previous employer for 121 regional. They were promising me FSI for their Citation 7 and CJ1 (right seat) for months and months, finally after a year of promises and nothing I made the jump to Skywest. I love Skywest and would have stayed there, but I was approached with an offer that I coud not refuse, thanks to my lawyer and his CEO friends! My lawyer is someone I flew a few years ago on a charter trip in a C182rg. We kept in touch over the years and when this position opened up at his CEO friends company, he thought of me. 2 interviews later, I got an offer. Its all about your attitude and networking. Ive worked my a$$ off and will continue to. Assumption = Guessing

 

[BoilerUP]

I'm not calling you a liar, but... You are telling me that the guy HAD a 91 Corporate job that he left for a 121 job and got furloughed, AND then a F100 company hired him????

I guess I am calling you a liar (actually I think you are mistaken). Either that or he got a job with one of these companies that can't keep a pilot more than a year (or just got a Legacy and are looking to save money on an FO).

But a furloughed 121 guy who left a previous corporate job getting hired at a F100 company NFW. You prove to me otherwise and I owe you a beer.

I've got no reason whatsoever to lie to you, and believe me, I'm NOT mistaken on the details.

My friend had a 91 job where he progressed from a C90 to a B200 to a CE550. He left that job to fly an regional jet, as very few majors were hiring at the time and he felt 121 experience was the one thing missing from his resume. A few years later, as an RJ captain (never furloughed) he was hired at a F100 company flying a common midsize jet at compensation well in line with Stanton and NBAA Jet III numbers.

The pilot he was hired to replace had been with said company 20+ years and was retiring.

Most F100 or F500 jobs are filled by friends, or friends of friends.

While the value of networking is undeniable, I know a different guy hired at the same F100 company a couple years ago that didn't know a soul when he got the initial call that he was under consideration.

 

[JohnDoe]

.....

 

[JohnDoe]

<<I know a guy recently hired at a F100 company that did exactly that>>

I'm not calling you a liar, but... You are telling me that the guy HAD a 91 Corporate job that he left for a 121 job and got furloughed, AND then a F100 company hired him????

I guess I am calling you a liar (actually I think you are mistaken). Either that or he got a job with one of these companies that can't keep a pilot more than a year (or just got a Legacy and are looking to save money on an FO).

But a furloughed 121 guy who left a previous corporate job getting hired at a F100 company NFW. You prove to me otherwise and I owe you a beer.

Of course you don't want to believe it. Otherwise, it blows a hole right through your little theory on "how it is." Jet2work has spoken.......

 

[On Your Six]

I went from the 737-300/500 at UAL right after 9/11 to a new flight department that is now flying a Global Express. Attitude is everything. Good networking and a dose of humility can help significantly.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

I dont think there are any "golden" rules...

121 guys can always make the transition. Getting an interview? yeah, chances are much greater if they know someone who is willing to vouch that they can make the move. Getting the job? - thats on the individual once he gets his foot in the door.

Often at large departments, a set number of people are interviewed for a single position (say 8-10) Some are from references, some simply from a resume pile. Once you get the interview, its really 100% up to you, 121,91,135 whatever.....

Departments still want to hire the right person, not simply the one with time in type, references, etc...

Good Luck.

 

[Capt1124]

BoilerUp,

I went from nonsked 727 cargo to 135. Sort of a lateral move, something I fell into. Things that were similar, last minute chaos and the crew ultimately being responsible for making things happen. Things that were different, passengers. No question it can be done, but the question is why. For me it was an overall improvement in lifestyle.

For the original poster, if you have glass cockpit airliner experience, there are lots of jobs overseas. That may be a better alternative, depending on your personal circumstances. If you are single you can have a great adventure and get valuable qualifications for airline jobs when things turn around. Otherwise maybe a Part 121 supplemental. Unless you are interested in corporate as a long term career option, I would make it last on your list of "I need a job right now" jobs.

I'm sure many 121 pilots care about their passengers, but it's not really their job and not really their problem. And I'm sure the reinforced door seals out the sound of screams from the back. (I'm sorry, I've been flying American a lot recently. I've concluded the miles are not worth it.) Think about this- on most corporate aircraft, the cockpit door is only closed when the passengers want it closed.

Corporate flying can be great or it can be terrible. For some pilots it's great and for other pilots it's terrible. But, fundamentally, it's *different*. I don't think non-corporate pilots really understand to what extent.

 

[CapnVegetto]

1124 makes a GREAT point. The best thing about those overseas jobs is the fact that you don't pay tax. BIG $$$$$$$$$$$$. If you can deal with it for a year or two, you're going to pocket a TON of money and get a lot of valuable experience to boot.

I say 'deal with it', but things are so different over there it's just unreal. Unlike in America, where most management are thinking 'how can we get this done as cheap as possible' management over there thinks 'how can I attract and retain the best people'. The salary differences, work rules, relationship between management, how you are treated, etc. is like night and day vs. over here. You are not a liability, you are an asset.

I missed the boat on going overseas for a year or 2 b/c I got sucked into a marriage/baby on the way. Screw my career anyway, that changes everything, and I wouldn't trade it for anything in the world!! All I'm sayin is if that is an option for you, look into it. Big $$$$$$$ and awesome treatment.