Brazil Mid-Air Survivor

[pilot01]

After a near midair over Turkey in 2002 with some air carrier of unknown parts I and most of the guys in my ANG squadron always offset R of course some distance, .5 or 2 miles depends on your flavor, Is it Legal? I could give a rats a**, I am a parttimer trying to get my 20 ,and get back to my life as a FO . High Altitude ATC in Turkey for you guys that have been through those parts sounds like three sisters that work one shift after the other didn't say a thing to us. I now offset all jetways a little when i fly international, and spend most my time (when not changing CD's )watching the tcas and and listing to the Co D*ck up the position report. Just my 2 cents as a AC in a KC

 

[Sluggo_63]

You apparently didn't read the article in the above post from NYRANGER huh? Well here it is again for you if you missed it.....


I figured the color coding would help you out a little bit.

Now with the DFDR and the CVR of the legacy in perfect condition, why oh why is it taking so long to find out if the transponder and TCAS were on or off??? things that make you go hhhhhmmmmm.......you don't think they'd be trying to do whatever they could to blame the foreign pilots now would they? nnnnnaaaaaa never.

I think that your friendship with the pilots of the legacy is biasing your responses to this. I appreciate that you think he is a great pilot (which I'm sure he is) but to say that it's impossible that he made a mistake is a little short-sighted.

I read the newest article in OGlobo (granted, it's a Brazilian newspaper, and my Portuguese isn't really what it should be), but they seemed convinced that the Legacy had their transponder off, and they were told to descend to 360 after passing Brasilia (which they didn't). As to why the CVR/DFDR data is taking so long... it's going to Canada for analysis. I hope everything works out for the pilots, but I think it's looking a bit grim.

 

[canyonblue]

Found on another board...............................

The article seems more accurate in terminology. It begins by focussing on the lack of timely communication between Brasilia ATC (Cindacta 1) and Manaus (Cindacta 4) and between these centres and the aircraft themselves, based on radar and comms recordings in the respective centres.

It then moves to actions on the part of the Legacy crew whose CVR and FDR began being analysed on Friday. The Legacy crew were interviewed in Rio on Monday by the aeronautical authorities who, by that time, had heard the CVR and conducted at least a superficial analysis of the FDR. Details not revealed but the article states that at some point after passing Brasilia the Legacy’s transponder was switched off, thus rendering the secondary radar returns that rely on the transponder and which would have more precisely established altitude, virtually useless (primary radar being able to track course accurately but altitude only to ±1,500’). Then, that the Legacy began a series of brusque manoevers up and down, left and right, descending at one point to FL 320 before resuming FL 370, those manoeuvers further complicating interpretation of radar signals.

Around that time Brasilia, unable to make radio contact with the Legacy, transferred control to Manaus, who then failed to take into account their own 738 and did not avail themselves of the Cachimbo mountain range radar assembly to more accurately track the Legacy.

At one point the article states that the accident committee believe the Legacy crew did see the 738 and attempted evasive action, too late. “Proof” offered of this being the transponder’s being switched back on shortly after the collision and, simultaneously, an emergency landing at Cachimbo AF base being requested.

The article contains a list of errors on the part of ATC and the Legacy, free translation:

ATC
- The Legacy was not alerted when it maintained FL 370 after passing Brasilia.
- ATC should have tried to alert the Legacy via any other aircraft.
- Manaus ATC alerted neithter of the aircraft of the possibility of collision

Legacy
- Did not follow the flight plan filed at Sao Jose dos Campos which included descent to FL 360 on passing Brasilia.
- Switched off transponder and performed dangerous maneouvers blinding the radar and making Cindacta 1 (Brasilia) and 4 (Manaus) work more difficult.
- Ignored repeated alerts from Brasilia ATC whilst varying altitude by up to 3,000 feet.


RIO DE JANEIRO, Brazil (AP) -- Two American executive jet pilots were ordered by a judge to stay in Brazil while authorities investigate whether they caused a midair collision with an airliner that crashed into the Amazon, killing all 155 people aboard.

A Brazilian newspaper reported that the pilots' Legacy jet, which was carrying seven Americans, disobeyed an order by the control tower to descend to a lower altitude just before coming into contact with Gol airlines Flight 1907.

 

[wooferdog]

I think that your friendship with the pilots of the legacy is biasing your responses to this. I appreciate that you think he is a great pilot (which I'm sure he is) but to say that it's impossible that he made a mistake is a little short-sighted.

I read the newest article in OGlobo (granted, it's a Brazilian newspaper, and my Portuguese isn't really what it should be), but they seemed convinced that the Legacy had their transponder off, and they were told to descend to 360 after passing Brasilia (which they didn't). As to why the CVR/DFDR data is taking so long... it's going to Canada for analysis. I hope everything works out for the pilots, but I think it's looking a bit grim.

______
Yeah, a bit of bias, AND he wants his $80 back. tool.

 

[i'mbatman]

Any one here possibly think that either of the pilots had their foot on the footrests and it brushed the RMU? I've seen it before.......i hope this isn't the case though.

 

[PurpleInMEM]

155 Dead Brazilians...and 2 live foreign pilots....I would NOT want to be the crew of the Legacy right now. I hope they are gearing up with the best lawyers that money can buy or they may be in Brazil for a long long time.

Hopefully they cannot be blamed for the accident in any way, shape, or form.

There's a lesson in here...

Never cooperate with any investigation....and if an accident happens on foreign soil, find any way possible to get out...even if they do take your passport.

The justice system in Brazil is probably as fair as a lynch mob enforcing Jim Crow laws.

Does anyone know if the US will extradite to Brazil? Brazil won't extradite its own nationals to the US to face charges, I didn't know if our government would.

 

[Sonny Crockett]

"IF" I were those guys...I would be finding me a way out of there either down to Bolivia or go North, either way I would get the heck out of Brazil!

 

[vetteracer]

Passports of the two American pilots, Joe Lepore and Jan Paladino were confiscated on Tuesday and will remain with Brazilian Federal Police during the investigation, said Judge Tiago de Abril in Mato Grosso state, where the plane crashed.


This is not good, in any event, I feel for those two guys. Things happen, and 999 times out of 1000 the small mistake, if there was one, would un-effect the flight. In this case, right place at the wrong time.

If it were me, I would have been heading to the American Embassy ASAP!

 

[FN FAL]

Unlike the United States, pilots can be criminally prosecuted for accidents.

You don't know what you are talking about. Name one federal code or state statute that absolves pilots from criminal negligence, negligent homicide or reckless homicide crimes.

You can't.

 

[Kharma Police]

You don't know what you are talking about. Name one federal code or state statute that absolves pilots from criminal negligence, negligent homicide or reckless homicide crimes.

You can't.

Oh boy, you again, you know that the Comair FO is out of the hospital now. I'm still waiting to hear about the impending arrest warrant for murder that you suggested he receive. I guess esquire you don't understand the word "precedent".