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Bomber pilot helped land airliner after captain fell ill

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Every part of that story makes me ill.
 
I feel it would be more distracting and more questions asked by her actions then just going solo.
 
get2flyin said:
Every part of that story makes me ill.
Click to expand...

Why?

Good job.
He's not acting like he saved the day- gave credit to the FO and good crm to use what she had onboard.

It's a good story. Pretty low key and that's with cnn trying to make it sound more dramatic then it was

Glad the captain is recovering
 
Where the heck did they get a cot? I can see SWA supplying two cots in each plane. The new hotel accommodation's for SWA pilots. That way SWA can start strong the next morning.
 
I hope this guy is on one of my flights this month, that way if the capt falls ill I can initiate lock down and he can watch from the back. What a worthless story!
 
capt1900 said:
I hope this guy is on one of my flights this month, that way if the capt falls ill I can initiate lock down and he can watch from the back. What a worthless story!
Click to expand...

Agreed....! I have always thought that the "is there a pilot on board" practice was actually more of a liability than anything else, unless it is a company pilot on a deadhead, leave non essential personnel on the back regardless of what they claim to be. A single pilot landing at the nearest suitable airport is better than to bring an unknown knowledge based, procedures based individual into the flight deck!
 
it just a flight

Guys,

It was airplane flight where someone in the back helped out. Period. It was not a moon mission.

I get the feeling that even a military trained pilot is not good enough to fly with people on this board!


AWACS
 
I think we might be missing the point. I'm old school, I always stick my head in the cockpit to say hi and I always thank the crew for the ride on the way out. Whether deadheading, nonreving, a jumpseater with a seat or paying passenger. This may seem annoying to some but to me a common professional curtesy. Had this crew known you were in the cabin, scaring the entire passenger load could have been avoided. Going solo with a professional pilot in the back might not be the best option. Argue the point all you want but simply another set of eyes and ears while you are under stress is useful. Those of you who do this, thanks, I really appreciate it.
 
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awacs said:
Guys,

It was airplane flight where someone in the back helped out. Period. It was not a moon mission.

I get the feeling that even a military trained pilot is not good enough to fly with people on this board!


AWACS
Click to expand...

As a former military pilot, if I were to find myself in this FO's situation, solo with the other pilot laying down in the aisle, the only reason I could benefit from a non-company pilot in the cockpit with me would be to alert me if I forgot to put the gear down. Nothing more. I can remember to put the gear down. A non-company, non-typed pilot has no idea of the systems or procedures, and I don't have time to help him tune a radio or ILS.

Well meaning passengers should stay out of the way and remain in their assigned seat until I turn off the seatbelt sign. Just saying.
 
"Immediately, Gongol realized the pilot was the patient. He looked to his wife; as she gave him a nod, Gongol pressed his button and headed toward the flight deck."

That's were it all went wrong. :laugh:
 
Turtle21 said:
As a former military pilot, if I were to find myself in this FO's situation, solo with the other pilot laying down in the aisle, the only reason I could benefit from a non-company pilot in the cockpit with me would be to alert me if I forgot to put the gear down. Nothing more. I can remember to put the gear down. A non-company, non-typed pilot has no idea of the systems or procedures, and I don't have time to help him tune a radio or ILS.

Well meaning passengers should stay out of the way and remain in their assigned seat until I turn off the seatbelt sign. Just saying.
Click to expand...

In the guys defense, they asked him...not the other way around. I'm sure if any of us were aboard and the request came over the PA, we'd have gotten up.

I just shake my head at the media's portrayal of a military pilot coming into the cockpit and assessing the ability of a civilian pilot and then "backing her up" in case she did something incorrect. The guy is probably decent and in the end I hope UAL gives him an open offer of employment.
 
That's our media for ya'.

How dramatic would this have been?

"F/O DOES HER JOB AS SHE WAS TRAINED. PASSENGERS NEVER IN DANGER"
 
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We're trained to continue single-pilot in an incapacitation, not train and familiarize another pilot. He could have been more distraction than help, and liability for the fo and company if something went wrong.

You should always stick to the way you were trained.
 
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get2flyin said:
In the guys defense, they asked him...not the other way around. I'm sure if any of us were aboard and the request came over the PA, we'd have gotten up.

I just shake my head at the media's portrayal of a military pilot coming into the cockpit and assessing the ability of a civilian pilot and then "backing her up" in case she did something incorrect. The guy is probably decent and in the end I hope UAL gives him an open offer of employment.
Click to expand...


I have no issue with a pilot stepping up to help out, however inflated his opinion of his contributions might be. I don't even fault the helpful FA for letting him into the cockpit. Personally I would thank any passenger for offering his help and would tell the FA to give him a coke and a bag of peanuts as a "thank you", back as his seat.
 
I've got to question the wisdom of a non company trained pilot being let in to help also. Sounds like he sat on his hands and didn't cause a problem. But he was not a known entity. What if it had been someone that thought they needed to assert themselves in a way that caused more of a distraction than a help? Suppose he started arguing with the F/O? What if he thought he knew "better" and tried to influence the F/O and caused a conflict? What if he was a pathological liar and wasn't really a pilot?
Get the Captain medical help, declare an emergency and land ASAP. Doesn't seem that hard to me.
 
I think that's the question-
Is this the time and place to check out a pilot's documents and licenses?
And if you don't do that, it's a security risk
Wouldn't be the farthest stretch that a plan could be to take out a pilot with something in drink or food, maybe as far back as the hotel- then in the commotion, get to the flight deck.

I want to roll my eyes at that scenario, but I thought protecting the flight deck was rule number 1. I'd rather stick a flight attendant up there if one was available, or any company employee, or just land solo.
 
Dan Roman said:
I've got to question the wisdom of a non company trained pilot being let in to help also. Sounds like he sat on his hands and didn't cause a problem. But he was not a known entity. What if it had been someone that thought they needed to assert themselves in a way that caused more of a distraction than a help? Suppose he started arguing with the F/O? What if he thought he knew "better" and tried to influence the F/O and caused a conflict? What if he was a pathological liar and wasn't really a pilot?
Get the Captain medical help, declare an emergency and land ASAP. Doesn't seem that hard to me.
Click to expand...


Doesn't sound like you attended CRM
training.

You need to use all available resources.

Suppose the F/O had a heart attack!

You can't just sacrifice the entire aircraft
because you want to fly "Solo."
 
Decent point kwick

But you better handle security somehow
 
Dan Roman said:
I've got to question the wisdom of a non company trained pilot being let in to help also. Sounds like he sat on his hands and didn't cause a problem. But he was not a known entity. What if it had been someone that thought they needed to assert themselves in a way that caused more of a distraction than a help? Suppose he started arguing with the F/O? What if he thought he knew "better" and tried to influence the F/O and caused a conflict? What if he was a pathological liar and wasn't really a pilot?
Get the Captain medical help, declare an emergency and land ASAP. Doesn't seem that hard to me.
Click to expand...

I thought perhaps there is an SOP around this type of scenario. Do you 121 guys have standards in case of such an event, such as soliciting assistance, credentials required for cockpit entry, that kind of thing? I'm guessing what she did was by the book, if there is one.

I don't mean to imply a crew needs a profile or quick reference for this but I would be surprised if the DHS or TSA don't have an opinion which might be expressed in some kind of SOP. Your point that he could have misrepresented himself is a valid one.
 
waveflyer said:
Oh god
:)
Hahaha
Ok
Never mind

He basically sat on his hands, worked the radio, and agreed with every thing she did and being touted a hero for keeping the seat warm.

Glad everyone's alright, but why is the AF angle being hyped up and not the FOs??

Seriously. Sounds like she did great
Click to expand...


Isnt much more to do as either pilot.lol
 
kwick said:
Doesn't sound like you attended CRM
training.

You need to use all available resources.

Suppose the F/O had a heart attack!

You can't just sacrifice the entire aircraft
because you want to fly "Solo."
Click to expand...

Good point about using all available resources, however, my point was that is he really a resource? He could have been exaggarating his background or he could have caused a greater distraction in the cockpit? Not a lot of time to figure that out, and while unlikely, not as unlikely as both pilots having a heart attack as in your scenario.
 
It was the PIC's call in an emergency situation, she made the decision, the B-1 pilot did what she asked, and the flight landed safely. I say Good Work to both of them.
We can "what if?" all day, but we weren't there, and may only succeed in provoking more restrictions on a PIC's emergency authority.
 
I echo Dan Roman's thought - was he really a resource?

What about one of those "virtual airline" individuals who have intimate knowledge of how to program the FMS?

How about a company GROUND instructor, who has intimate knowledge of the aircraft?

Personally, unless they can verify that they are current 121 pilot with certificate, pilot ID and such, I would not invite them into the cockpit. They might cause more problems than they would solve.

Any 121 pilot would be welcome to come up and lend a hand.

After that, depending on time left to landing, I would invite up any legitimate company employee from the flight department to essentially make sure that if I keel over, there is someone to recite the Lord's Prayer over the PA.

Also, a retired pilot may not have the radio skills needed to handle an emergency divert in busy airspace.
 
But, if Karen Black (circa 1975) was on the flight, I'd um, tap that resource right away.

Or Julia Hagerty. Say miss, the automatic pilot is deflating...
 
tomgoodman said:
It was the PIC's call in an emergency situation, she made the decision, the B-1 pilot did what she asked, and the flight landed safely. I say Good Work to both of them.
We can "what if?" all day, but we weren't there, and may only succeed in provoking more restrictions on a PIC's emergency authority.
Click to expand...


I'm not criticizing the decision. I'm just saying I wouldn't have made the same one. More from concern over getting second-guessed over the security issues.

I think that emergency authority has largely been eroded already. With very bad results.
 

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