Bomber pilot helped land airliner after captain fell ill

[kwick]

I've got to question the wisdom of a non company trained pilot being let in to help also. Sounds like he sat on his hands and didn't cause a problem. But he was not a known entity. What if it had been someone that thought they needed to assert themselves in a way that caused more of a distraction than a help? Suppose he started arguing with the F/O? What if he thought he knew "better" and tried to influence the F/O and caused a conflict? What if he was a pathological liar and wasn't really a pilot?
Get the Captain medical help, declare an emergency and land ASAP. Doesn't seem that hard to me.

Doesn't sound like you attended CRM
training.

You need to use all available resources.

Suppose the F/O had a heart attack!

You can't just sacrifice the entire aircraft
because you want to fly "Solo."

 

[waveflyer]

Decent point kwick

But you better handle security somehow

 

[Traderd]

I've got to question the wisdom of a non company trained pilot being let in to help also. Sounds like he sat on his hands and didn't cause a problem. But he was not a known entity. What if it had been someone that thought they needed to assert themselves in a way that caused more of a distraction than a help? Suppose he started arguing with the F/O? What if he thought he knew "better" and tried to influence the F/O and caused a conflict? What if he was a pathological liar and wasn't really a pilot?
Get the Captain medical help, declare an emergency and land ASAP. Doesn't seem that hard to me.

I thought perhaps there is an SOP around this type of scenario. Do you 121 guys have standards in case of such an event, such as soliciting assistance, credentials required for cockpit entry, that kind of thing? I'm guessing what she did was by the book, if there is one.

I don't mean to imply a crew needs a profile or quick reference for this but I would be surprised if the DHS or TSA don't have an opinion which might be expressed in some kind of SOP. Your point that he could have misrepresented himself is a valid one.

 

[Juniority]

this should trigger a "read before fly" or two...

 

[SENECAII]

Oh god

Hahaha
Ok
Never mind

He basically sat on his hands, worked the radio, and agreed with every thing she did and being touted a hero for keeping the seat warm.

Glad everyone's alright, but why is the AF angle being hyped up and not the FOs??

Seriously. Sounds like she did great

Isnt much more to do as either pilot.lol

 

[Dan Roman]

Doesn't sound like you attended CRM
training.

You need to use all available resources.

Suppose the F/O had a heart attack!

You can't just sacrifice the entire aircraft
because you want to fly "Solo."

Good point about using all available resources, however, my point was that is he really a resource? He could have been exaggarating his background or he could have caused a greater distraction in the cockpit? Not a lot of time to figure that out, and while unlikely, not as unlikely as both pilots having a heart attack as in your scenario.

 

[tomgoodman]

It was the PIC's call in an emergency situation, she made the decision, the B-1 pilot did what she asked, and the flight landed safely. I say Good Work to both of them.
We can "what if?" all day, but we weren't there, and may only succeed in provoking more restrictions on a PIC's emergency authority.

 

[livin'thesim]

I echo Dan Roman's thought - was he really a resource?

What about one of those "virtual airline" individuals who have intimate knowledge of how to program the FMS?

How about a company GROUND instructor, who has intimate knowledge of the aircraft?

Personally, unless they can verify that they are current 121 pilot with certificate, pilot ID and such, I would not invite them into the cockpit. They might cause more problems than they would solve.

Any 121 pilot would be welcome to come up and lend a hand.

After that, depending on time left to landing, I would invite up any legitimate company employee from the flight department to essentially make sure that if I keel over, there is someone to recite the Lord's Prayer over the PA.

Also, a retired pilot may not have the radio skills needed to handle an emergency divert in busy airspace.

 

[livin'thesim]

But, if Karen Black (circa 1975) was on the flight, I'd um, tap that resource right away.

Or Julia Hagerty. Say miss, the automatic pilot is deflating...

 

[livin'thesim]

It was the PIC's call in an emergency situation, she made the decision, the B-1 pilot did what she asked, and the flight landed safely. I say Good Work to both of them.
We can "what if?" all day, but we weren't there, and may only succeed in provoking more restrictions on a PIC's emergency authority.

I'm not criticizing the decision. I'm just saying I wouldn't have made the same one. More from concern over getting second-guessed over the security issues.

I think that emergency authority has largely been eroded already. With very bad results.

 

[JimNtexas]

The way I read the accounts it sounded like the PA asked for 'non-rev' pilots, and the Bone guy hit his call button when nobody responded. The FO was probably hoping for another airline pilot and figured the Bone guy was good enough.

What has happened in the past when one airline crewmember has become incapacitated?

 

[capt1900]

This represents the public and company understanding that if the captain becomes incapacitated then all lives are in grave danger. Heard a story of a captain who had a bad time with kidney stones mid flight. Message sent to dispatch to keep them in the loop and to inform them of the possibility of a diversion. First thing dispatch asked was, who is gonna taxi the airplane to the terminal if the captain can't? There is a big disconnect!

 

[flyboyike]

But, if Karen Black (circa 1975) was on the flight, I'd um, tap that resource right away.

Or Julia Hagerty. Say miss, the automatic pilot is deflating...

It's JuliE Hagerty. She would be another one competing with S. J. Parker and Kirsten Dunst in the hot body/weird face contest, and it would be a very close one indeed.

 

[livin'thesim]

Hey babe, you'd look hot with a post-coital smoke in your hands...

Kirsten Dunst is certainly the cutest of the three.

 

[densoo]

...........

 

[CTflyer]

Glad everything worked out OK. My question is centered on the wisdom of letting a stranger in the cockpit.

I am not to sure I would let a stranger in the cockpit in a situation like this, especially in a post 9/11 world.

Just a thought.

 

[Flying-Corporal]

Doesn't sound like you attended CRM
training.

Suppose the F/O had a heart attack!

You can't just sacrifice the entire aircraft
because you want to fly "Solo."

Suppose the meteorite struck the tailcone, or aliens landed on the left wing... Or the orbit of the Earth changed at that VERY moment... Suppose...

The sign on the cockpit door says "AUTHORIZED PERSONNEL ONLY". Sounds like that guy wasn't authorized to be there in flight.

Landing 'solo' is not a big deal esp if you pick a VFR airport with a long runway. Configure early, take your time and land. When you fly a normal approach, you call the speeds, decide when to set flaps and gears. The other guy is there to back you up. Unless you're a tv reporter, I can't understand why you would call it "sacrificing the entire aircraft".

Kinda reminds of a story a few years ago when 2 FO landed 777 in Newark and the media called it a 'Miracle Landing'...

 

[waveflyer]

AND you don't fly solo
You have one of the FAs in with you in case of said heart attack -
Let the other 2+ work the capt medical and go land

 

[KigAir]

That's our media for ya'.

How dramatic would this have been?

"F/O DOES HER JOB AS SHE WAS TRAINED. PASSENGERS NEVER IN DANGER"

Trained but not experienced?

"Surprisingly, taxiing was the most stressful part of the day for the first officer," said Gongol. "She had never taxied a 737 before and the ATC had no idea that the pilot was the reason for the emergency. We had to make a quick decision that her switching to the pilot's seat and taxiing the aircraft without the training was necessary to save the captain's life."

 

[kf4amu]

Glad everything worked out OK. My question is centered on the wisdom of letting a stranger in the cockpit.

I am not to sure I would let a stranger in the cockpit in a situation like this, especially in a post 9/11 world.

Just a thought.

If that stranger was a Taliban looking guy with hatred in his eyes, I'd choose someone else. But the chances of something bad happening are so remote it's sort of ridiculous.