'Blue cleaning crew

[KATL8R26L]

cleaning

First once again B190 Captian wins the contest for the sharpest avtar.

Well cleaning planes, loading bages is what got me through college, back then the pilots just walked around the plane , and checked it out ,not many of them even talked to ramp people.

We could turn a plane , and do a better job at it than any other company, we had to so we could keep the contract, out of all the airlines that were flying back then , i would say that AirFlorida was one of the best, most pilots on the other ones would not even talk to a person working the ramp, Air Florida was different.

Would i clean planes now if was flying for an airline , yes i like to keep the my work area in order ,help out where ever it is needed.

keep flyingggggggggggggggggggggggg

 

[aroundtheblock]

During my commuter days at Piedmont the pilots would go back and helps straighten up, time permitting. This was never beneath me, and I was glad to help out with 1 condition:

The flight attendant realized I was there helping her and was thankful. On the other side of things, I was always thankful when the girls would come up and offer us drinks during the flight.

I grew up as an airline kid and I've always considered an airline pilot as professional as a doctor. How many doctors do you know sweep the floors after seeing a patient. If he were to help out, and after he revieved the nurse, he should recieve a thank you.

Bottom line: Helping out in the back is great as long as it is not expected.

 

[jetblue320]

It's Not My Job?

Boy, I'll tell you, these "It's Not My Job" guys are slick. I also noticed that most of them are on furlough or saying "we used to, or, back when with my old airline". See a small connection there?

I sure can't wait until I see or suspect that attitude when I am looking across the table at them, I mean, the JB Interview Table that is. I've heard that statement many times before. Those guys are still out of work or at least, not even afforded the opportunity to clean a JB plane. Get my drift.

C Ya

 

[aroundtheblock]

To Jetblue320:

My reply was that if a pilot chooses to help it should be his choice not a requirement for the job. I stated I helped out at the commuter level. Many pilots will seek a major airline for not only the better pay, but also the better work rules. Just like a baseball player who wants out of the minors. I doubt Roger Clemens cleans out the visitors' locker room after an away game to help get ready for the next team, and baseball has been losing alot of money as of late. I guess you can be a little pompus during a bad pilot environment cycle. But that is what it is: a cycle. I'll bet that before JB started up a couple of years ago you would have loved to work for a major. That being said, I'm all for good company attitudes, and someone in an interview should say he'd fly, fuel, load, and clean the plane. As an interviewer you should know that. You should also know where to draw the line of "expected side jobs". Should the pilot carry coveralls in his flight bag to help change a tire between tight turns. It might save a penny. On the overnights he could make a few sales calls. Should a pilot be "expected" to be a mechanic, telemarketer, or cleaner... Where do you draw the line? If I choose to go above and beyond my pilot duties, which I do all the time, it should be that... my choice.

 

[DanielWebster]

Nice going, keep lowering the bar boys! I guarantee you that people will come to expect it of you, and before you know it, it will be one of your duties in the operations manual.

Suckers, is a better word.

 

[klhoard]

On the overnights he could make a few sales calls.

Careful!!!

 

[Daedalus]

Daniel,

You complain that the "bar" is being lowered by the efforts of some to make the extra effort to cross bridges, and raise the expectations of others who's hard work only helps to make people like you look good up front.

Your adament position that individual members of the pilot profession have some over-arching responsibility to choose between the good of the "brotherhood" over the good of the employer is one of the reasons this industry is such a big mess.

It appears that jetBlue pilots are on the right track with this one. Their actions are proving to have far greater benefits for a much larger group of shared stakeholders. In addition, as these practices expand to other carriers, it will help to mend fences and improve the stature of the profession by those who watch us from the outside.

Daniel, you (and your kind) are not the cure...but the illness which has made the profession a shell of its former self. I'm glad to see so many on this thread who seem to understand the obvious, and have the right spirit and attitude to help restore some humanity in a profession that has been too long devoid of any.

 

[canyonblue]

I doubt Roger Clemens cleans out the visitors' locker room after an away game to help get ready for the next team, and baseball has been losing alot of money as of late.

Yeah,

And I bet he hangs around after the game signing autographs for the kids like he did in the minors. No way that would look too "minor league" for him. Got 10 bucks kid!

 

[Diesel]

I was reading this posts going man i can't believe jet blue pilots clean their planes. that's unreal. I thought they are pilots not cleaning staff. Then I realized what I do in my own job. I take it for granted because that's the way we've allways done it. For some reason if your an airline pilot you don't clean the plane but if you are a frax guy you do.

Every leg i have to get the catering, pour the cofffee, clean the plane, empty the lav. yada yada yada.

I don't know what it says about me but i guess i'm lowering the bar.

I think it's great that JB has everyobody jumping in to help. It promotes a real team atmosphere and doesn't draw a line that says this is my part of the plane and that's yours.

The real point of this is not cleaning the plane. It's to promote unity in the company. Now that can't be a bad thing.

 

[jetblue320]

To Jetblue320:

My reply was that if a pilot chooses to help it should be his choice not a requirement for the job. I stated I helped out at the commuter level. Many pilots will seek a major airline for not only the better pay, but also the better work rules. Just like a baseball player who wants out of the minors. I doubt Roger Clemens cleans out the visitors' locker room after an away game to help get ready for the next team, and baseball has been losing alot of money as of late. I guess you can be a little pompus during a bad pilot environment cycle. But that is what it is: a cycle. I'll bet that before JB started up a couple of years ago you would have loved to work for a major. That being said, I'm all for good company attitudes, and someone in an interview should say he'd fly, fuel, load, and clean the plane. As an interviewer you should know that. You should also know where to draw the line of "expected side jobs". Should the pilot carry coveralls in his flight bag to help change a tire between tight turns. It might save a penny. On the overnights he could make a few sales calls. Should a pilot be "expected" to be a mechanic, telemarketer, or cleaner... Where do you draw the line? If I choose to go above and beyond my pilot duties, which I do all the time, it should be that... my choice.

Exactly. I wasn't trying to slight you at all. Please don't think that.

And no, I never really wanted to work for a major, before or especially after jetBlue started up. I interviewed and was offered a class date with DL years ago (like 12 years ago) and declined. Of course, maybe I was making a mistake, but that's water under the bridge. If someone makes promises of being a team player and stating "sure, I always help cleaning the plane" during an interview, it is usually BS because they have either read all the gouge on JB or been told to say that. That is part of the job as an Interviewer to determine. It's a tough one too. Usually, the true spirit of the applicant will surface and that helps in making a decision.

For the record, no one at any level at JB has EVER asked or told me (or any other Pilot) that plane cleaning was expected. It's not in my contract either. It's kinda like an MEL item, referring to common sense. Do you need a manual to tell you that the airplane needs 2 wings for dispatch? Of course not. It's just common sense, that's all.
You see, we want to do it because it's just not that big of a deal, to us anyway. The rewards (yes, I said rewards) of us doing what to do as a routine are countless in a lot of respects. We do not consider it demeaning, or a responsibility either. I would venture to say that every JB Pilot would not walk past a scrap of paper without picking it up regardless of if it was in a jetway, an aircraft aisle, or his own front yard. Some people call that anal retentive. I call it just plain simple.
It just makes sense, thats all. If that is hard to understand, maybe JB isn't the place for you to work. I mean, not you personally, but anyone.

Take Care

 

[kaufhaus]

Like your opinion matters, Mr. 200 Hour, C172Heavy!?!? Can you say "geek."

When you get some flight time, maybe you'll understand that pilots are not paid to clean f*ing airplanes. It's time we take back this PROFESSION.

What am I telling you for? You probably still rub one out everytime you see a King Air taxi by.....

see ya, jr.

ps. nice 'funny' at the end of your post. Yucka-yucka! Duh.

Dude, the "profession" is getting people or boxes from point A to point B as safely and efficiently as possible. And that's a what you're getting paid for no matter what your position in the crew is, Capt, FO, FA, or ground crew. Everyone's trying to accomplish the same thing, so why not do what it takes to keep the plane moving? It's not just about driving the bus. I'll bet you won't forget how to shoot an ILS if you pick up some trash, and you even may help make the difference between a late and an on-time departure.

BTW, who did you say you fly for? If your attitude is the norm, I want to be sure your outfit doesn't have a resume from me. As for you JB guys, you in the market for a slightly used Herk guy? If so, let Dean know - he's got my number .

 

[jetblue320]

The Bar

Nice going, keep lowering the bar boys! I guarantee you that people will come to expect it of you, and before you know it, it will be one of your duties in the operations manual.

Suckers, is a better word.

You sir (and I use that word loosely) are the sucker. You wouldn't be able to jump over the Blue Bar with a boost. Please, do us a favor and keep your weeny commuter job and stay away from anything that would involve other human beings. You are pathetic.

 

[jetblue320]

Dude, the "profession" is getting people or boxes from point A to point B as safely and efficiently as possible. And that's a what you're getting paid for no matter what your position in the crew is, Capt, FO, FA, or ground crew. Everyone's trying to accomplish the same thing, so why not do what it takes to keep the plane moving? It's not just about driving the bus. I'll bet you won't forget how to shoot an ILS if you pick up some trash, and you even may help make the difference between a late and an on-time departure.

BTW, who did you say you fly for? If your attitude is the norm, I want to be sure your outfit doesn't have a resume from me. As for you JB guys, you in the market for a slightly used Herk guy? If so, let Dean know - he's got my number .

Want a hint, leave that "Point A to Point B" attitude at home if you get an interview. It's a death blow, if you want to fly for JB that is.

 

[Blue Dude]

Nice going, keep lowering the bar boys! I guarantee you that people will come to expect it of you, and before you know it, it will be one of your duties in the operations manual.

Suckers, is a better word.

Intruder One, is that you? The resemblance is uncanny.

 

[dlredline]

I always felt good helping out by going back and helping the F/A's clean up a little. And to a person, they always, always said thank you. We practice CRM as often as we can. What better way to break down barriers than to go "above and beyond" to help your fellow employee and the company you earn a good living from. It never seemed beneath me, nor does helping my wife around the house, or a neighbor with his yard. It's called common courtesy, and team concept. And on a late night arrival into PVD several years back, with no ground crew to unload the bags (at least for another hour), my F/O actually got a kick out of helping me unload the cargo bin of a 737. It made a positive impression on him. Sometimes you can move mountains, one inch at a time.

As I've heard so many times, and believe, JetBlue does it right.

DL

 

[skirt]

My reply was that if a pilot chooses to help it should be his choice not a requirement for the job. I stated I helped out at the commuter level. Many pilots will seek a major airline for not only the better pay, but also the better work rules. ... If I choose to go above and beyond my pilot duties, which I do all the time, it should be that... my choice.

Aroundtheblock,

The customer is the one with the choice, not you.

If the customer wants to fly on an airline with good service, he/she will. As a pilot, where do you draw the line? Do you just fly the plane? Do you help customers with their questions or is that just a customer service rep job? Do you help lift their bags, or is that just a flight attendant job? Do you assist passengers off/on the plane, or just let them fend for themselves? Do you bring their too big "carryon" down to the pit, or wait for the ramp guy to do it? Do you proactively find a mechanic to help fix a writeup, or do you sit and wait for the mechanic to come?

Do you see where I am going with this? Helping out the flight attendants in the back is only a small piece of the puzzle. If you are too good to help an F/A, are you too good to help a customer? Are you too good to help your fellow employees to get a plane out on time? If so, the customer will go elsewhere. Check out the majors right now (including my employer), the customers are going elsewhere in droves, precisely because of this attitude.

Swimming upstream
Skirt

 

[pilotyip]

put on?

This has to be a put on, no one could really be as out of it as D. Webster.

 

[stillaboo]

the aircraft, crew and mission are my responsibility. I will take care of them before all else. Cleaning the aircraft rates after flight planning, mx issues, etc. Usually on a day-to-day basis, there is never a conflict.

Do you work for Delta, JayDub? I used to ramp for Delta in 3 different stations. In my time there, I ramped Delta, Delta Shuttle, and Commair. I can tell you that not once did a Delta mainline pilot ever help clean (We didn't clean Delta Shuttle, so I don't know who cleaned), nor did 90% of the DL mainline FA's.

The FA's would nap in coach, using the blankets and pillows. Then they would complain to my supervisor that we didn't fold all the blankets and put away all the pillows. Of couse we didn't, you were using them! The pilots were actually better. They would sit in first and read the paper while we cleaned around them. They would always say "hi" and smile at us (you'd be surprised how easy it is to make someone's day a bit better). Then they'd always make sure to throw away their paper (or maybe they just took it into the cockpit). I wished the pilots would occasionally clean (it would result in a 15-20% reduction in turn times), but it was the FA's that were the problem. They acted like us rampers weren't even human beings, and were just as worthy as the trash we picked up. The more junior the FA, the worse we were treated.

So, for all you Delta guys, if you insist on not cleaning, fine, that's between you and your company. But if you could kindly explain to your FA's that rampers are humans, that'd be great. The 10% of FA's who would clean were awesome. These were the same girls who would offer us a water or something. Little things, yeah. But these make a big difference in moral. And I can assure you that if two planes want to be pushed at the same time, the one with the crew on it that cleans or offers us water will be pushed first EVERY time.

on a late night arrival into PVD several years back, with no ground crew to unload the bags (at least for another hour), my F/O actually got a kick out of helping me unload the cargo bin of a 737.

You're DL, right, 'DL'? I guess I just didn't ever work your plane in PVD. I can't ever think of a time we weren't unloading w/in 5 minutes, nor a time I saw DL pilots work the bin! I guess there's an exception to every rule.

-Boo!

 

[DanielWebster]

You JB guys crack me up. The first post went something like...."we all clean the plane, CEO, pilots and station manager, and our jumpseaters (even offline) do to." Then when you realize how ridiculous you sound you change your tune to......."well, if you want to you can.....blah, blah, blah."

The fact is, you are pilots, not cleaners. Let the freakin cleaners clean the plane. Is it really that hard to comprehend????

Or do you want it to be expected of us all someday, cause JB pilots lowered the bar so low. NO THANKS.

God, you guys are kool aid drinkers over there......reminds me of the People's Express pilots back in the day.

 

[jetblue320]

You JB guys crack me up. The first post went something like...."we all clean the plane, CEO, pilots and station manager, and our jumpseaters (even offline) do to." Then when you realize how ridiculous you sound you change your tune to......."well, if you want to you can.....blah, blah, blah."

The fact is, you are pilots, not cleaners. Let the freakin cleaners clean the plane. Is it really that hard to comprehend????

Or do you want it to be expected of us all someday, cause JB pilots lowered the bar so low. NO THANKS.

God, you guys are kool aid drinkers over there......reminds me of the People's Express pilots back in the day.

Yes, kool-aid drinkers for sure, and it's tastes good Pal. As a matter of fact, I was sipping some as I was browsing the latest stock quotes. It's not a ridiculous sound Buddy Boy. Just go ahead and call me a cleaner that makes $197 an hour and dabbles in flying a plane now and then.

Your a moron. Enjoy your furlough.

 

[dlredline]

Boo,

No, sorry, I wasn't Delta. Former USAir dude. And the only reason we unloaded the cargo was the late night (after midnight) delayed arrival and the contracted ground crew wasn't set to arrive for another hour (normally our ground crews are like you, very prompt, but this happened because of company cutbacks and reductions). After enduring hours of wx delays that night, it just wasn't right having passengers wait around an empty rotating baggage carousel for another hour. Not something I've had to do since, but it was actually kinda fun that one time.

DL

 

[aroundtheblock]

Skirt

I understand the customer comes 1st. If you had read the previous posts this is not about bad customer service or kicking little old ladies off the planes. It is silly to imply that that was what I meant. My post only states that if I decide to help out picking up trash in the back it should be my choice. I do help little old ladies and answer questions and aid in oversize bags. But this topic is about being required as compared to being expected or scorned.

 

[ReportCanoa]

The only reason I pick up trash is that my employer is too cheap to do so. I will not have passengers board a trashed airplane. There isn't even an attempt at cleaning at an outstation. All that for a $600 dollar ticket on my little RJ. Sad, sad, sad state of affairs at the majors and their cheapie RJ outfits.....

 

[Redtails]

Danny Boy: in reference to my first post about cleaning, I only said regularly (that doesn't mean it's SOP). You need to see the movie 12 o'clock high-- to understand that if you're a part of an organization that aviators (employees) want to belong to and care about it's success, you'll do what it takes to ensure it's survival. When I jumpseat to work, I get many comments from customers who enjoy watching pilots cleaning/taking care of their planes. If you felt good about the service you received, you'd probably tip the guy/gal wouldn't you, for a job well-done. I think our customers tip us by coming back, they're proud of their home-town airline. But then again, Danny Boy, you sound like the kind of guy who'd stiff the hotel van driver of his dollar because-- "IT's HIS job to handle my bags not mine!!!" I'm sick of your stupid comments, NEXT thread please!!!

 

[Neubyfly]

The fact is, you are pilots, not cleaners. Let the freakin cleaners clean the plane. Is it really that hard to comprehend????

What is hard to comprehend is a fool like yourself who is not will to help his employer survive/succeed!

I thought DW produced a better product/graduate. I guess I am wrong. I guess that is why I went to Hawthorne instead!

 

[DanielWebster]

I guess that is why I went to Hawthorne instead!

You also went to TWA, and got furloughed. Yeah, smart move Einstein.

 

[dlredline]

Enough . . .

Guys,

Enough already. DW has a bitterness in him only he can understand. Let's end this thread for more constructive pastures.

Good Bye,

DL

 

[stillaboo]

I'll leave it up till I get back from my trip. I think the point's been made. JB pilots usually clean their planes, though they are not required to.

-Boo!

 

[DanielWebster]

Yes, kool-aid drinkers for sure, and it's tastes good Pal. As a matter of fact, I was sipping some as I was browsing the latest stock quotes..................Your a moron. Enjoy your furlough.

1) How many years till the stock options become fully vested?? Seven years? Come gloat then jr. because they most likely won't be worth a nickle then. Some deal!

2) Sorry jr. but I ain't furloughed.

3) That should be "you're" not "your"

4) Sounds like all JB pilots here are bottom feeding kool aid drinkers. No matter though, it happens every decade.

 

[Skank]

Danny Boy,
1. I agree, there is no reason to gloat about the options (but I will gloat about the profit sharing and the stock purchase plan)
2. Too bad, a lot of good guys are.
3. no comment
4. Thanks, coming from you, I consider your trash talk a compliment.
5. Have a nice bitter day!