Bloomberg: DAL buys 40 CRJ900s

[Crash Pad]

SWAPA is actually leading the league in scope failure. 717s and 737s flown at a regional takes the cake. Code share Q1... watch your open time.

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Face it, you caved, for money.

Next up is DAL scheming to keep the 50-seaters after all, because of fears of decreased passenger demand.

Hey....just say thanks and shut the f up.

This was already announced as far back as JULY. We are parking hundreds of 50 seaters and we traded for 40 76 seaters. scope got tighter.....less non-delta pilots flying delta tickets.

Not the slam dunk but its better.....you get to join our ranks sooner if you want or continue there and fly larger planes at a better pay rate. life is about choices...

 

[HA25]

Hey....just say thanks and shut the f up.

This was already announced as far back as JULY. We are parking hundreds of 50 seaters and we traded for 40 76 seaters. scope got tighter.....less non-delta pilots flying delta tickets.

Not the slam dunk but its better.....you get to join our ranks sooner if you want or continue there and fly larger planes at a better pay rate. life is about choices...

I guess he must have missed the whole Comair gone and ASA being part of ExpressJet part of recent history.. I'll hand it DAL they did well on RJ scope considering the environment we're in and the fact that they had little president (apart from my company) to work with.

 

[Data]

I'd think you guys as major airline pilots would be able to play this forward. You sign a great new contract that cuts the number of RJs but allows more larger RJs. Airline B comes along and uses your larger RJ as a basis and expands their numbers drastically. Airline C comes along and does the same thing. 6 years down the road Airline A comes back to the table and guess what? They'll be either expanding their numbers or giving in a to a slight increase in size and, voila, scope, while seemingly scaled back, erodes further. Keep patting yourselves on the back, keep telling yourself you held some imaginary line. The truth is you've done no better than those before you and you did exactly what everyone always does, took the immediate gain while neglecting the long term pain.

I'm not saying I wouldn't have done the same, I've earned my experience on these very aircraft. But keep the sanctimonious sh!t to yourselves about how you're the best and you're helping the cause. You've done no better and most likely a little worse than those before you.

 

[GogglesPisano]

I'd think you guys as major airline pilots would be able to play this forward. You sign a great new contract that cuts the number of RJs but allows more larger RJs. Airline B comes along and uses your larger RJ as a basis and expands their numbers drastically. Airline C comes along and does the same thing. 6 years down the road Airline A comes back to the table and guess what? They'll be either expanding their numbers or giving in a to a slight increase in size and, voila, scope, while seemingly scaled back, erodes further. Keep patting yourselves on the back, keep telling yourself you held some imaginary line. The truth is you've done no better than those before you and you did exactly what everyone always does, took the immediate gain while neglecting the long term pain.

I'm not saying I wouldn't have done the same, I've earned my experience on these very aircraft. But keep the sanctimonious sh!t to yourselves about how you're the best and you're helping the cause. You've done no better and most likely a little worse than those before you.

In your example, it would be up to the pilots at airline B to hold the line.

 

[General Lee]

I'd think you guys as major airline pilots would be able to play this forward. You sign a great new contract that cuts the number of RJs but allows more larger RJs. Airline B comes along and uses your larger RJ as a basis and expands their numbers drastically. Airline C comes along and does the same thing. 6 years down the road Airline A comes back to the table and guess what? They'll be either expanding their numbers or giving in a to a slight increase in size and, voila, scope, while seemingly scaled back, erodes further. Keep patting yourselves on the back, keep telling yourself you held some imaginary line. The truth is you've done no better than those before you and you did exactly what everyone always does, took the immediate gain while neglecting the long term pain.

I'm not saying I wouldn't have done the same, I've earned my experience on these very aircraft. But keep the sanctimonious sh!t to yourselves about how you're the best and you're helping the cause. You've done no better and most likely a little worse than those before you.

None of that has happened, scope has only gotten tighter. You can't see the forest through the trees. OVERALL RJ numbers needs to decrease, and mainline flying needs to INCREASE. That has happened with this agreement. A sweetheart deal was made with the 717s, that will place those planes ontop of current 76 seat routes. Those new 76 seaters and current 70 and 76 seaters will now fly 50 seat routes as they go out. That is a win win for everyone. The 50 seaters can't make money during high gas, so now those routes will have 70 or 76 seaters to try to make more profits, and 717s will take back old mainline routes, like DTW to IAH or DFW, that CR9s are doing now. More profits, more mainline flying. That equals a WIN, and SWA gets to pay for the 717 reconfigurations and mx checks. To top it off, after the sub-lease is over, DL now has the option to buy the 717s at then current market rates. Used MD90s now (DL gets 14 in 2013 btw) go for about $8 million each including the engines. What will the 717s go for in 10 years? That is called a screaming good deal, while paying 717 Captains at the 12 year rate $195 an hour by 2015 (when they all get to DL). And, that will be the smallest DL mainline plane by then, paying that great rate. Well done.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

I'd think you guys as major airline pilots would be able to play this forward. You sign a great new contract that cuts the number of RJs but allows more larger RJs. Airline B comes along and uses your larger RJ as a basis and expands their numbers drastically. Airline C comes along and does the same thing. 6 years down the road Airline A comes back to the table and guess what? They'll be either expanding their numbers or giving in a to a slight increase in size and, voila, scope, while seemingly scaled back, erodes further. Keep patting yourselves on the back, keep telling yourself you held some imaginary line. The truth is you've done no better than those before you and you did exactly what everyone always does, took the immediate gain while neglecting the long term pain.

I'm not saying I wouldn't have done the same, I've earned my experience on these very aircraft. But keep the sanctimonious sh!t to yourselves about how you're the best and you're helping the cause. You've done no better and most likely a little worse than those before you.

Wow.....talk about biting the hand that feeds ya.

I'll bet you weren't so vocal when you were in your first suit, standing at Commuter X with your logbooks in hand hoping to fly A JET.....Most civilians didn't have that chance, they got their time in props....WHY? because times have changed. The dinosaur days are over.....entry level is an RJ....we are closing the gap on how many RJ's are out there. Don't you dare disagree with me on that. RJ SEATS are down....even though there are more baby airliners in the air.

Now to say we are patting ourselves on the back, or thinking we are the best....it sounds like you are a little hurt that I don't give you the "cool guy nod" in the terminal and you have an inferiority complex. You are a pilot and so am I and we are working to fix the scope bleed we cut open in 1992.

AGAIN, we didn't win the war....just closed part of the battle. Was this too sanctimonious for ya?

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Holy crap.....I actually agree with GL?? The Mayans WERE right!!

 

[DTW320]

It's even worse than that Bill.... I agree with both of you!

Watch that calendar....weird stuff going on....

 

[General Lee]

Holy crap.....I actually agree with GL?? The Mayans WERE right!!

Someday (before Dec 21st?) you'll figure out that I was correct ALL ALONG....


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[PBRstreetgang]

Someday (before Dec 21st?) you'll figure out that I was correct ALL ALONG....


Bye Bye---General Lee

The only correct thing you ever did, was to buy a blow up doll, so you wouldn't have to leave your moms basement...

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

The only correct thing you ever did, was to buy a blow up doll, so you wouldn't have to leave your moms basement...

It didn't take long for the jackholes to chime in.....

 

[General Lee]

The only correct thing you ever did, was to buy a blow up doll, so you wouldn't have to leave your moms basement...

But wait, I went over to your Mom's basement.....


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[EL10]

First of all there some key items are being missed in this whole discussion about UAL TA verse the DAL scope. For one how many 76 seat jets did DAL have on property the day before the DAL TA was signed? Answer is 153 76 seat jets. The same amount allowed before UAL has to get a 100 seat jet. Difference here is the 120% cap on block hours, except UAL excludes any 767 domestic jets.

But the really scope improvement UAL will get that DAL does have is the day LCC and AMR get hitched and LCC leaves Star Alliance we will not have a domestic code share and DAL will still be living with Alaska. What's a bigger issue a 50seater or a 737-900 flying SEA to ATL?

Now you look at the fact that the way the language is written in the UAL deal it targets getting the C-series or the EMB 195. This is where the goal of getting them flown and crewed by UAL verse outsourcing creates a firewall. My opinion is we will not see more than 153 76 seaters at UAL as they will not want to give away the 100 seat jets. So who will have a bigger RJ fleet come next round of section 6?

 

[General Lee]

First of all there some key items are being missed in this whole discussion about UAL TA verse the DAL scope. For one how many 76 seat jets did DAL have on property the day before the DAL TA was signed? Answer is 153 76 seat jets. The same amount allowed before UAL has to get a 100 seat jet. Difference here is the 120% cap on block hours, except UAL excludes any 767 domestic jets.

But the really scope improvement UAL will get that DAL does have is the day LCC and AMR get hitched and LCC leaves Star Alliance we will not have a domestic code share and DAL will still be living with Alaska. What's a bigger issue a 50seater or a 737-900 flying SEA to ATL?

Now you look at the fact that the way the language is written in the UAL deal it targets getting the C-series or the EMB 195. This is where the goal of getting them flown and crewed by UAL verse outsourcing creates a firewall. My opinion is we will not see more than 153 76 seaters at UAL as they will not want to give away the 100 seat jets. So who will have a bigger RJ fleet come next round of section 6?

The AK codeshare was actually tightened in the DL Contract, and UAL already has plenty of "66" seaters which are really 70 seat CR7s and E170s. They already have those, along with tons of 50 seaters. How did the rates go for that C-Series and E195 anyway? The C-Series hasn't even flown yet. The 717 rates OTOH are fairly good. Regardless, it's up to your group to see if the deal is right for you. Shrinking total RJ numbers and adding 88 717s were good things for DL.


Bye Bye---General Lee