Bloomberg: DAL buys 40 CRJ900s

[wms]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-...ets-from-bombardier-in-rebuff-to-embraer.html

With options for 30 more. DALPA has hurt an industry of pilots. I hope this is a wake up to the UAL pilots and the reality of a yes vote that includes concessions on scope.

This is The SCOPE cliff.

 

[Data]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-...ets-from-bombardier-in-rebuff-to-embraer.html

The SCOPE cliff.

Good to see mainline will be flying these... Oh, wait, never mind. It must be confusing for General Lee, this is the plane his airline is buying that he can't fly and promised he'd never vote yes to allow.

 

[redflyer65]

Ouch!

 

[General Lee]

Ummmmm, this was a part of the deal, remember? 70 CR9s for 88 717s, and then they dump well over 200 plus 50 seaters. You guys all have a very short memory. Overall this HELPS because more than 300 of the 50 seaters had leases through 2015. Now, they have to be gone prior to that, and even though many had big MX checks due, had the price of gas fallen anytime in the future here, they might have become "more economical" and a decision could have been made to keep them. Look at UAL, there are NO current plans to dump any of theirs. At DL, they HAVE TO, all the way down to 125 total (from well over 300). The new CR9s will join other 76 seaters and 70 seaters and cover a lot of the 50 seater routes that are losing 50 seaters, and the 88 717s will happily cover the current 76 seater routes. That is a great outcome, recapturing DCI scope that was thought to be lost forever. And SWA is paying a ton of money, over $100 million, to facilitate it. Thanks Guys! Does UAL have a plan like this? Not yet. But the ordering of these jets was something that has always been a part of the deal, a deal that gets rid of more RJs than it brings in, a good thing.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Good to see mainline will be flying these... Oh, wait, never mind. It must be confusing for General Lee, this is the plane his airline is buying that he can't fly and promised he'd never vote yes to allow.

DL will be flying 88 717s, and the Capt rate for 12 year Capt in 2015 will be $195 an hour. All of that is growth, and it recaptures a heck of a lot of DCI's current flying. It also reduces the overall number of RJs out there, has a ratio that increased mainline flying compared to DCI, and has INTL and AK scope additions. I'd say that is a lot better. You must have forgotten a lot of that.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-...ets-from-bombardier-in-rebuff-to-embraer.html

With options for 30 more. DALPA has hurt an industry of pilots. I hope this is a wake up to the UAL pilots and the reality of a yes vote that includes concessions on scope.

This is The SCOPE cliff.

UAL doesn't have any current plans to park any 50 seaters, and also doesn't have any plan to REPLACE any of the UAL Express planes with smaller mainline planes. They have payrates which are A LOT lower for E190s etc, but no orders. There is no actual carrot. The 88 717s at DL were tied into these 70 CR9s. If DL didn't get the 717s, no CR9s were allowed, and the number of 50 seaters also has to go down to 125 total, a huge parking of 50 seaters.

Big difference. Dispute that please.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[wms]

Face it, you caved, for money.

Next up is DAL scheming to keep the 50-seaters after all, because of fears of decreased passenger demand.

 

[Smarta$$]

Ummmmm, this was a part of the deal, remember? 70 CR9s for 88 717s, and then they dump well over 200 plus 50 seaters. You guys all have a very short memory. Overall this HELPS because more than 300 of the 50 seaters had leases through 2015. Now, they have to be gone prior to that, and even though many had big MX checks due, had the price of gas fallen anytime in the future here, they might have become "more economical" and a decision could have been made to keep them. Look at UAL, there are NO current plans to dump any of theirs. At DL, they HAVE TO, all the way down to 125 total (from well over 300). The new CR9s will join other 76 seaters and 70 seaters and cover a lot of the 50 seater routes that are losing 50 seaters, and the 88 717s will happily cover the current 76 seater routes. That is a great outcome, recapturing DCI scope that was thought to be lost forever. And SWA is paying a ton of money, over $100 million, to facilitate it. Thanks Guys! Does UAL have a plan like this? Not yet. But the ordering of these jets was something that has always been a part of the deal, a deal that gets rid of more RJs than it brings in, a good thing.



Bye Bye---General Lee

General, is Delta the greatest Air Line in history, or just the last 100 years?

 

[General Lee]

Face it, you caved, for money.

Next up is DAL scheming to keep the 50-seaters after all, because of fears of decreased passenger demand.

No, the whole deal was better. It dumped smaller RJs that cannot make money, and gave a great solution to recapture DCI flying for mainline, the 717s. UAL has no current option, and their pay for the E190s if they are ever ordered have very low rates in their TA. The 50s are on the way out, contractually and due to high gas. WRONG.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[wms]

If pax demand drops and DAL feels they can't fill ml planes, they'll right- size to smaller aircraft just like in the past. When has DAL cared about a contract, and empty ml planes are not profitable either.

 

[General Lee]

General, is Delta the greatest Air Line in history, or just the last 100 years?

Best in the last 300 years. Hey, if people on here can't remember parts of the deal, they will be reminded. Overall, the deal was a good one.

Unfortuneately people can't seem to figure out that more 76 seaters will just replace the outgoing 50 seaters on those routes, and 717s will replace 76 seater on their current routes, a good thing. There is no current plan for this at UAL, which is a big difference.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

If pax demand drops and DAL feels they can't fill ml planes, they'll right- size to smaller aircraft just like in the past. When has DAL cared about a contract, and empty ml planes are not profitable either.

Huh? An arbitrator will fix that if needed. You can't just go against the contract. And passenger demand is scheduled to increase. You know that, right?


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[wms]

I hope you're right. Because we're all tired of delays in career progression. The unconfirmed word is though, that DAL has already asked us to delay the transfers of fifty-seaters.

 

[flythere]

So, who will operate the airplanes? Which feeder will get the jets? What provisions were in the latest TA?

 

[HA25]

DAL's scope wasn't the best, but you all need to channel your alarm towards the UAL deal which where the RJ Cliff seems to be..

 

[Crash Pad]

SWAPA is actually leading the league in scope failure. 717s and 737s flown at a regional takes the cake. Code share Q1... watch your open time.

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Face it, you caved, for money.

Next up is DAL scheming to keep the 50-seaters after all, because of fears of decreased passenger demand.

Hey....just say thanks and shut the f up.

This was already announced as far back as JULY. We are parking hundreds of 50 seaters and we traded for 40 76 seaters. scope got tighter.....less non-delta pilots flying delta tickets.

Not the slam dunk but its better.....you get to join our ranks sooner if you want or continue there and fly larger planes at a better pay rate. life is about choices...

 

[HA25]

Hey....just say thanks and shut the f up.

This was already announced as far back as JULY. We are parking hundreds of 50 seaters and we traded for 40 76 seaters. scope got tighter.....less non-delta pilots flying delta tickets.

Not the slam dunk but its better.....you get to join our ranks sooner if you want or continue there and fly larger planes at a better pay rate. life is about choices...

I guess he must have missed the whole Comair gone and ASA being part of ExpressJet part of recent history.. I'll hand it DAL they did well on RJ scope considering the environment we're in and the fact that they had little president (apart from my company) to work with.

 

[Data]

I'd think you guys as major airline pilots would be able to play this forward. You sign a great new contract that cuts the number of RJs but allows more larger RJs. Airline B comes along and uses your larger RJ as a basis and expands their numbers drastically. Airline C comes along and does the same thing. 6 years down the road Airline A comes back to the table and guess what? They'll be either expanding their numbers or giving in a to a slight increase in size and, voila, scope, while seemingly scaled back, erodes further. Keep patting yourselves on the back, keep telling yourself you held some imaginary line. The truth is you've done no better than those before you and you did exactly what everyone always does, took the immediate gain while neglecting the long term pain.

I'm not saying I wouldn't have done the same, I've earned my experience on these very aircraft. But keep the sanctimonious sh!t to yourselves about how you're the best and you're helping the cause. You've done no better and most likely a little worse than those before you.

 

[GogglesPisano]

I'd think you guys as major airline pilots would be able to play this forward. You sign a great new contract that cuts the number of RJs but allows more larger RJs. Airline B comes along and uses your larger RJ as a basis and expands their numbers drastically. Airline C comes along and does the same thing. 6 years down the road Airline A comes back to the table and guess what? They'll be either expanding their numbers or giving in a to a slight increase in size and, voila, scope, while seemingly scaled back, erodes further. Keep patting yourselves on the back, keep telling yourself you held some imaginary line. The truth is you've done no better than those before you and you did exactly what everyone always does, took the immediate gain while neglecting the long term pain.

I'm not saying I wouldn't have done the same, I've earned my experience on these very aircraft. But keep the sanctimonious sh!t to yourselves about how you're the best and you're helping the cause. You've done no better and most likely a little worse than those before you.

In your example, it would be up to the pilots at airline B to hold the line.