Bloch Interpertation and 9E

[EngineThunder]

Talk about throwing stones.....You constantly spew your opinion about others pay rates. Pinnacle is within ten dollars in its pay rates with other that fly the same equipment. Your airline pay rates are grossly undercutting others that fly the same equipment. I just took my six year rate on the 320/319 to see how your airline pays,,,,,we pay $123 you $85....that's $38 dollars LESS. Hell your Captains only make $7 /hr more than our FO's!! Maybe you shouldn't jump on others pay rates when yours are so low yourself.

I am sure you will come up with some excuse that your airline is new or you are in line with some other lowly lcc. Doesn't matter, yours undercut ours and you are on here all high and mighty talking about others doing the same thing.

Isn't he a Gulfstream grad too?

 

[FOrever85]

First off, if he was around to fly the Avro, he at least had a long chance to be a captain..... If not still, albiet a crap reserve line at this point.

Who says I believe them? You by your actions

You didn't answer the question.

What happens after the no vote? Either Delta changes their plans to keep from looking foolish, while changing their diaper, or we see that the planes were coming anyway... either way it was going to take more than 6 months

You really think they would just give up and say "you win" Not a chance but they wouldn't be able to kill us in the time frame quoted. Ultimately you have to look at the money... it always comes down to money. Where were they going to move stuff for a cheaper option that would actually function? Hint, NOT the Skywest family.

First off, I respect point of view and agree with most of your post. You were able to put your thoughts in a rational post without going off the handle.(and you still work here so that also matters) Fact is voting no would have only made it worse.

Actually, my actions are a direct result of not believing Delta or our management. I know they are only motivated by money. I know Delta is ruthless and could care less about it's regional partners. That was exactly what my vote was based on.

I completely agree that Delta wouldn't have been able to shut us down in a year. I am sure they would have found someone at a cheaper price. There are plenty of companies that would have taken our flying, for the price Delta wanted, in a heartbeat. (PSA, Mesa, Air Wisconsin, GoJet) I think Delta was smart enough to already have a back up plan.

And come on, you really think if they imposed enough pilots would have walked out?

Again, I am only speaking for myself, but I voted yes to keep that crappy imposed rate out of the industry. (The company meet every aspect of the court's demands)

Most importantly, it doesn't matter anymore. It happened.


P.S I don't appreciate your first sentence. I was enjoying flyer's petty FO comments. Makes me wonder if he thought that way about himself before he got to fly a "big boy" airplane. Now I am going to have to read his "you shouldn't be at a regional if you got to be a captain" diatribe. Thanks a lot

 

[1.3XVso]

Talk about throwing stones.....You constantly spew your opinion about others pay rates. Pinnacle is within ten dollars in its pay rates with other that fly the same equipment. Your airline pay rates are grossly undercutting others that fly the same equipment. I just took my six year rate on the 320/319 to see how your airline pays,,,,,we pay $123 you $85....that's $38 dollars LESS. Hell your Captains only make $7 /hr more than our FO's!! Maybe you shouldn't jump on others pay rates when yours are so low yourself.

I am sure you will come up with some excuse that your airline is new or you are in line with some other lowly lcc. Doesn't matter, yours undercut ours and you are on here all high and mighty talking about others doing the same thing.

Isn't he a Gulfstream grad too?

At least he doesn't work with spinless scabs and barbaric treatment.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

Pot meet kettle! 10 pages of booger eaters, pointing booger encrusted fingers at each other.
Which one of you "invented" the backwards epaulets, flying the "9" ect, kids playing at being airline pilots. Enjoy knowing that 15 years ago you would have been laughed out of the Ameriflight office.

 

[1.3XVso]

Pot meet kettle! 10 pages of booger eaters, pointing booger encrusted fingers at each other.
Which one of you "invented" the backwards epaulets, flying the "9" ect, kids playing at being airline pilots. Enjoy knowing that 15 years ago you would have been laughed out of the Ameriflight office.

mesaba lol

 

[EngineThunder]

At least he doesn't work with spinless scabs and barbaric treatment.

No, he just paid a former scab to sit right seat to earn flight time. I can't help it if you don't see how many things are wrong with that.

 

[Flyer1015]

No, he just paid a former scab to sit right seat to earn flight time. I can't help it if you don't see how many things are wrong with that.

I never went to Gulfstream Academy, I've never flown a Beech 1900, in fact I've never flown a turboprop. But please, don't let facts get in the way of a good flightinfo bashing!

 

[gojo]

I never went to Gulfstream Academy, I've never flown a Beech 1900, in fact I've never flown a turboprop. But please, don't let facts get in the way of a good flightinfo bashing!

Interesting why you only chose to defend those items?

 

[Flyer1015]

Talk about throwing stones.....You constantly spew your opinion about others pay rates. Pinnacle is within ten dollars in its pay rates with other that fly the same equipment. Your airline pay rates are grossly undercutting others that fly the same equipment. I just took my six year rate on the 320/319 to see how your airline pays,,,,,we pay $123 you $85....that's $38 dollars LESS. Hell your Captains only make $7 /hr more than our FO's!! Maybe you shouldn't jump on others pay rates when yours are so low yourself.

I am sure you will come up with some excuse that your airline is new or you are in line with some other lowly lcc. Doesn't matter, yours undercut ours and you are on here all high and mighty talking about others doing the same thing.

You sound angry for a Mesaba flowthrough? You're talking about an entirely different landscape for negotiations. At the legacy level, VX's pay affects you minimally because VX just isn't in the same scope/type of flying that Delta does. You got your new pilot contract recently despite VX's payrates. Also, VX did get a payraise, so that 6th year FO pay is now $90/hr. It's not the Delta level, but in the playing field (which would be Spirit, Frontier, Allegiant, and JetBlue) it's pretty much in the same ballpark.

Now compare that to the regional landscape, where all regionals are in the same ballpark: all of them fly RJs in the 50-76 seat range, all of them are approx 100-200 RJ quantity, and all of them are competing with the same owner (mothership/legacy airline) to get flying. It is the ultimate definition of a cutthroat environment. They are DIRECTLY competing against each other, whereas in your comparison, we are not. So when 9E Corp voluntarily accepts paycuts, it then puts downward pressure in section 6 negotiations for other regional airlines that are doing the exact same type of flying, in the same scope, in the same size. Now Delta can go to Skywest, ASA, Shuttle America, etc and tell them to do it at a certain cost that 9E has or else lose that flying. Now it could lead to an entire loss of flying, which directly affects the welfare of an entire pilot group. VX making what they have does not mean your A320 pilots at Delta will lose their flying. But on the regional level, that's exactly the implication. Even if you say 9E is within 10 dollars of others, that's still 10 less dollars that Delta can use to push a downward trend. We've already seen how Delta likes to play ball with Comair being the latest victim. Sorry, but your comparison of VX vs Delta is an entirely different (and irrelevant) argument when comparing the cutthroat environment of regionals undercutting each other to gain more flying, especially when those pilots voluntarily accept paycuts.

 

[Flyer1015]

Interesting why you only chose to defend those items?

Give me more than a minute, I only have two hands to type.

 

[Flyer1015]

First off, I respect point of view and agree with most of your post. You were able to put your thoughts in a rational post without going off the handle.(and you still work here so that also matters) Fact is voting no would have only made it worse.

Actually, my actions are a direct result of not believing Delta or our management. I know they are only motivated by money. I know Delta is ruthless and could care less about it's regional partners. That was exactly what my vote was based on.

I completely agree that Delta wouldn't have been able to shut us down in a year. I am sure they would have found someone at a cheaper price. There are plenty of companies that would have taken our flying, for the price Delta wanted, in a heartbeat. (PSA, Mesa, Air Wisconsin, GoJet) I think Delta was smart enough to already have a back up plan.

And come on, you really think if they imposed enough pilots would have walked out?

Again, I am only speaking for myself, but I voted yes to keep that crappy imposed rate out of the industry. (The company meet every aspect of the court's demands)

Most importantly, it doesn't matter anymore. It happened.


P.S I don't appreciate your first sentence. I was enjoying flyer's petty FO comments. Makes me wonder if he thought that way about himself before he got to fly a "big boy" airplane. Now I am going to have to read his "you shouldn't be at a regional if you got to be a captain" diatribe. Thanks a lot

You're spot on about Delta not shutting 9E down in one year. But people still fell for it. And what's this petty FO comments? And you are wondering if I thought that way about myself? Let me put it this way, at 41.10/hr I thought I was underpaid. The pay bump to 43.xx would certainly have helped more, but I left before that. It has nothing to do with flying a "big boy" (your words) airplane. I have some level of self-respect, in that definition of self-respect, I will NEVER vote yes to a paycut. If I ever get a piece of paper or an online vote that says do you want to accept these concessions/paycuts, my answer is now and always a big NO. RJ FOs are already underpaid, why the heck would I vote yes? I'd be better off starting over at Skywest and earn more in my 2nd year there than I would as a topped 4th year RJ FO with 6 years of longevity. I'd even apply to GoJets because it's still a better opportunity than the deadend 9E Corp. So you see, I'm not above flying any kind of airplane. My circumstances just ended up working out the way they did because I wanted to leave Corp ASAP. I applied at a time when not everyone had hit the panick button, and therefore the competition was less. I'd venture a guess that it is much tougher now to get hired at a place like JetBlue, VX, or Spirit than it was before.

 

[gojo]

You sound angry for a Mesaba flowthrough? You're talking about an entirely different landscape for negotiations. At the legacy level, VX's pay affects you minimally because VX just isn't in the same scope/type of flying that Delta does. You got your new pilot contract recently despite VX's payrates. Also, VX did get a payraise, so that 6th year FO pay is now $90/hr. It's not the Delta level, but in the playing field (which would be Spirit, Frontier, Allegiant, and JetBlue) it's pretty much in the same ballpark.

Now compare that to the regional landscape, where all regionals are in the same ballpark: all of them fly RJs in the 50-76 seat range, all of them are approx 100-200 RJ quantity, and all of them are competing with the same owner (mothership/legacy airline) to get flying. It is the ultimate definition of a cutthroat environment. They are DIRECTLY competing against each other, whereas in your comparison, we are not. So when 9E Corp voluntarily accepts paycuts, it then puts downward pressure in section 6 negotiations for other regional airlines that are doing the exact same type of flying, in the same scope, in the same size. Now Delta can go to Skywest, ASA, Shuttle America, etc and tell them to do it at a certain cost that 9E has or else lose that flying. Now it could lead to an entire loss of flying, which directly affects the welfare of an entire pilot group. VX making what they have does not mean your A320 pilots at Delta will lose their flying. But on the regional level, that's exactly the implication. Even if you say 9E is within 10 dollars of others, that's still 10 less dollars that Delta can use to push a downward trend. We've already seen how Delta likes to play ball with Comair being the latest victim. Sorry, but your comparison of VX vs Delta is an entirely different (and irrelevant) argument when comparing the cutthroat environment of regionals undercutting each other to gain more flying, especially when those pilots voluntarily accept paycuts.

Monster wasn't a flow through, not that that matters much

 

[Flyer1015]

Monster wasn't a flow through, not that that matters much

Ok, thanks. That's why I had a question mark because I don't know.

 

[Ridgeback]

You guys caved in on the first attack! Watch no furgloughs and more 76 seat airplanes at ******************** wages. Its ok I understand you guys helped pinnacle. Good job buddy but regardless you guys are right. What you guys don't get and what pisses me off is that GOOD aviators are forced to quit flying because of the wages you guys brought upon them. You guys prob have mom and daddy pay the bills or the wifey. Pride is what you guys don't get. Thats why our industry freaking blows and are categorized as "grey hound" drivers. Its pathetic really. Yet still people run to get the airplane on-time and all sorts crap. I give up my light at the end of the tunnel is getting brighter so whatever enjoy!

And I bet you were the first one to run your buddies over to get that Multi Time way back when?

 

[jynxyjericho]

You sound angry for a Mesaba flowthrough? You're talking about an entirely different landscape for negotiations. At the legacy level, VX's pay affects you minimally because VX just isn't in the same scope/type of flying that Delta does. You got your new pilot contract recently despite VX's payrates. Also, VX did get a payraise, so that 6th year FO pay is now $90/hr. It's not the Delta level, but in the playing field (which would be Spirit, Frontier, Allegiant, and JetBlue) it's pretty much in the same ballpark.

Now compare that to the regional landscape, where all regionals are in the same ballpark: all of them fly RJs in the 50-76 seat range, all of them are approx 100-200 RJ quantity, and all of them are competing with the same owner (mothership/legacy airline) to get flying. It is the ultimate definition of a cutthroat environment. They are DIRECTLY competing against each other, whereas in your comparison, we are not. So when 9E Corp voluntarily accepts paycuts, it then puts downward pressure in section 6 negotiations for other regional airlines that are doing the exact same type of flying, in the same scope, in the same size. Now Delta can go to Skywest, ASA, Shuttle America, etc and tell them to do it at a certain cost that 9E has or else lose that flying. Now it could lead to an entire loss of flying, which directly affects the welfare of an entire pilot group. VX making what they have does not mean your A320 pilots at Delta will lose their flying. But on the regional level, that's exactly the implication. Even if you say 9E is within 10 dollars of others, that's still 10 less dollars that Delta can use to push a downward trend. We've already seen how Delta likes to play ball with Comair being the latest victim. Sorry, but your comparison of VX vs Delta is an entirely different (and irrelevant) argument when comparing the cutthroat environment of regionals undercutting each other to gain more flying, especially when those pilots voluntarily accept paycuts.

Well that is the company's perspective but when ASA (ASQ now??) or any other pilot group is negotiating in Section 6, it's fairly easy to point out Pinnacle's pay rates are for a company that requires an addition 150-200 million being dumped into that company over 6 months from Delta just to keep it from shutting down completely. Mesaba, doing the same flying Colgan did got Saab rates wildly higher than theirs. Mesaba, doing the same flying Mesa did had -900 rates wildly higher than Mesa did. Hell even the Mesaba Saab FO rates were higher than the 9E -200 rates (your ex-rates Flyer)

You keep on taking the company's side and ignore real world examples, from your ex-pilot group as an easy example, which disprove your point. We have a concessionary agreement, we are an unsaleable airline at this point, and Delta is dumping hundreds of millions of dollars in this company trying to fix what Trenery broke, and Menke and Spanky were too inept to fix. A pilot group can easily make that argument and any arbitrator will agree with it. Pinnacle vs non-bankrupt carrier is not an apples to apples comparison.

As a side note to any pilot group, tell the company that you are more than willing to make the comparison apples to apples if they give you a 150 million dollar signing bonus divided up as cash among the pilots. Should be around that $30k signing bonus for everyone on the list.

 

[xjhawk]

I am telling you all. Stop trying to reason with flyer and 1.3, its easier to understand they they have a warped sense of reality and its easier to just put them on the ignore list. I know flyer is a nice guy-just misguided and way too opinionated to understand facts. They do not let the facts get in the way of their opinions.

 

[big shacks]

9E's pass benefits are embarrassing...been that way since day one..sucks that our parents travel at a S4..Shenanigans. Wholly owned turd

 

[jynxyjericho]

9E's pass benefits are embarrassing...been that way since day one..sucks that our parents travel at a S4..Shenanigans. Wholly owned turd

Technically we are not wholly owned yet. About may'ish then we'll be a wholly owned turd.

Only Pinnacle Airlines could bring us wholly owned with all of the problems and none of the benefits. I miss Mesaba.

 

[higney85]

I miss northwest.

 

[jynxyjericho]

I miss northwest.

... Mt. Dew.

A real flow.