Pathetic it comes to all of this back and forth bs. I hope the best for all of the Pinnacle/Mesaba people We all have families and responsibilities. The only reason I didnt work there was because I failed the written test in '05. Its close minded and border line asinine to throw fellow pilots under the bus. We all go to the first place that offers us a class date. If someone says otherwise, they are lying.
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i fly boxes
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- Posts
- 848
So somehow that makes the crash "better"?
ASA's crashes killed passengers. Pinnacle's crashes killed no passengers, just the crew. I don't recall how Express I's history was, but I think they had just one fatal crash.
So what about the ASA pilots that flew a brand new Brasilia into the side of a mountain on a delivery flight from the factory? Does that no count? Almost lost a 200 to an electrical contactor fire coming into ATL. Almost lost a 200 from sawing off the pitot tube per MCC, thank goodness they found VFR. Almost ran multiple aircraft off an 11,000 runway in VPS. We do plenty of stupid stuff. We've just been lucky.
I'm an ASA guy, I'm mostly happy with job.....but we should not be throwing stones. Every company, aircraft, and every individual pilot have had lapses in safety. 99.9% of the time they don't amount to anything.... but obviously some do.
Safety should never be taken for granted anywhere. Any individual, company, specific situation can become unsafe at a moments notice. Stay vigilant.....be proactive....err on the side of caution.
I'm an ASA guy, I'm mostly happy with job.....but we should not be throwing stones. Every company, aircraft, and every individual pilot have had lapses in safety. 99.9% of the time they don't amount to anything.... but obviously some do.
Safety should never be taken for granted anywhere. Any individual, company, specific situation can become unsafe at a moments notice. Stay vigilant.....be proactive....err on the side of caution.
i fly boxes
Well-known member
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- Jan 12, 2006
- Posts
- 848
Good post
That was Colgan.
Good post brother!! It seems as soon as our ego gets too big a lesson in humility is soon to follow.
SEVEN
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- Posts
- 1,563
Still at 9E
Ops check good
Well-known member
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- Sep 11, 2012
- Posts
- 346
Copied from another forum so credibility is unknown. Does not sound good, think there is any truth to it or just scare tactics?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pinnacle Reveals Tenuous Nature ... (Article)
Pinnacle Reveals Tenuous Nature Of
Latest Delta Feeder Contract
Pinnacle Airlines’ agreements to
continue flying 50-seat Bombardier
CRJ200 and 76-seat CRJ900
aircraft for Delta Air Lines through
July 2022 contain no minimum usage
requirements and a rate reset
in 2018—potentially fatal provisions,
given the regional carrier’s
current reliance on Delta as its only
long-term customer and its assertion
that it is already losing money
on the contracts.
The Memphis, Tenn.-based regional
carrier disclosed details of
the contracts in a legal brief seeking
bankruptcy court approval to impose
cost cuts on its unionized pilots.
Additional details reveal how
much influence Delta—and the state
of the U.S. regional airline industry
in general—is having on Pinnacle’s
latest contract offer to its pilots. And
for the first time Pinnacle publicly
discloses what it wants the pilots
to concede, much of which is calcu-
lated on seniority-based pay and as
much as 25% in retroactive wage
reductions.
“The regional airline industry is in
crisis, and Pinnacle must adapt immediately
or it will liquidate,” the carrier
says in its brief. “Older airlines
like Pinnacle are particularly exposed
because of the relative seniority of
their workforce, contributing to substantially
higher labor costs.”
The airline asserts it will reach
“critically low liquidity levels within
a matter of months or less” absent
the $60 million in savings it is seeking
from its pilots and $16.5 million
from other unions and work groups.
It also is at imminent risk of violating
the terms of its debtor-in-possession
financing from Delta, it says.
Delta, which is providing the
financing to allow Pinnacle to attempt
a Chapter 11 restructuring,
also is driving the regional carrier’s
current crisis.
First, Delta reached an agreement with its own pilots
that gives it the tools to cut its 50-seat Delta Connection
services by more than 200 aircraft by 2015—a decision
that will reduce the 50-seat feeder fleet to about 125
aircraft. Based on expiring contracts and other arrangements
already negotiated, Delta soon will have reduced
its 50-seat fleet to 225 aircraft, of which 140 are flown
by Pinnacle and 85 by SkyWest subsidiaries SkyWest Airlines
and ExpressJet Airlines, Pinnacle says.
Second, in mid-June Delta informed Pinnacle that it had
conducted a cost comparison of Delta Connection carriers
“to determine whether Pinnacle would be a candidate for
future lift awards from Delta.” Its conclusion: not at the
rates in the existing contracts.
Delta specified how much higher Pinnacle’s rates for
CRJ200 and CRJ900 flying are than the Delta Connection
carrier average. Pinnacle says Delta would not disclose all
the details of how it arrived at those figures—which Pinnacle
will not publicly disclose—but the regional carrier contracted
with several experts who made some assumptions and confirmed
the mainline carrier’s calculations.
Pinnacle says it appears that the average Delta Connection
rate is being driven by the youngest providers,
such as Compass Airlines and GoJet Airlines. Those two
carriers started operations in 2007 and 2005, respectively,
so none of their pilots has more than seven years of
seniority. But many of Pinnacle’s pilots have been with the
airline for 20 years or more, an imbalance exacerbated by
recent Pinnacle layoffs of its most junior pilots.
To compensate, Pinnacle is proposing retroactive pay
cuts for captains of 7-13% at each seniority level through
year 12, with no seniority step-up after that. The most
senior captains would see salaries cut 21-25%.
First officers would take pay cuts of 10-16% at seniority
levels 2 through 4, with no seniority step-up after year 4,
for a 19-24% reduction for top-of-scale flyers. First officers
promoted to captain would start at first-year captain
pay instead of getting credit for their first-officer service.
The only offset to the loss in pay—and other cuts in benefits
and changes in work rules—is a new profit-sharing program
that would pay employees 10% of profits up to 4% of
the company’s pre-tax margin and 15% of profits above 4%.
-Andrew Compart, [email protected]
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pinnacle Reveals Tenuous Nature ... (Article)
Pinnacle Reveals Tenuous Nature Of
Latest Delta Feeder Contract
Pinnacle Airlines’ agreements to
continue flying 50-seat Bombardier
CRJ200 and 76-seat CRJ900
aircraft for Delta Air Lines through
July 2022 contain no minimum usage
requirements and a rate reset
in 2018—potentially fatal provisions,
given the regional carrier’s
current reliance on Delta as its only
long-term customer and its assertion
that it is already losing money
on the contracts.
The Memphis, Tenn.-based regional
carrier disclosed details of
the contracts in a legal brief seeking
bankruptcy court approval to impose
cost cuts on its unionized pilots.
Additional details reveal how
much influence Delta—and the state
of the U.S. regional airline industry
in general—is having on Pinnacle’s
latest contract offer to its pilots. And
for the first time Pinnacle publicly
discloses what it wants the pilots
to concede, much of which is calcu-
lated on seniority-based pay and as
much as 25% in retroactive wage
reductions.
“The regional airline industry is in
crisis, and Pinnacle must adapt immediately
or it will liquidate,” the carrier
says in its brief. “Older airlines
like Pinnacle are particularly exposed
because of the relative seniority of
their workforce, contributing to substantially
higher labor costs.”
The airline asserts it will reach
“critically low liquidity levels within
a matter of months or less” absent
the $60 million in savings it is seeking
from its pilots and $16.5 million
from other unions and work groups.
It also is at imminent risk of violating
the terms of its debtor-in-possession
financing from Delta, it says.
Delta, which is providing the
financing to allow Pinnacle to attempt
a Chapter 11 restructuring,
also is driving the regional carrier’s
current crisis.
First, Delta reached an agreement with its own pilots
that gives it the tools to cut its 50-seat Delta Connection
services by more than 200 aircraft by 2015—a decision
that will reduce the 50-seat feeder fleet to about 125
aircraft. Based on expiring contracts and other arrangements
already negotiated, Delta soon will have reduced
its 50-seat fleet to 225 aircraft, of which 140 are flown
by Pinnacle and 85 by SkyWest subsidiaries SkyWest Airlines
and ExpressJet Airlines, Pinnacle says.
Second, in mid-June Delta informed Pinnacle that it had
conducted a cost comparison of Delta Connection carriers
“to determine whether Pinnacle would be a candidate for
future lift awards from Delta.” Its conclusion: not at the
rates in the existing contracts.
Delta specified how much higher Pinnacle’s rates for
CRJ200 and CRJ900 flying are than the Delta Connection
carrier average. Pinnacle says Delta would not disclose all
the details of how it arrived at those figures—which Pinnacle
will not publicly disclose—but the regional carrier contracted
with several experts who made some assumptions and confirmed
the mainline carrier’s calculations.
Pinnacle says it appears that the average Delta Connection
rate is being driven by the youngest providers,
such as Compass Airlines and GoJet Airlines. Those two
carriers started operations in 2007 and 2005, respectively,
so none of their pilots has more than seven years of
seniority. But many of Pinnacle’s pilots have been with the
airline for 20 years or more, an imbalance exacerbated by
recent Pinnacle layoffs of its most junior pilots.
To compensate, Pinnacle is proposing retroactive pay
cuts for captains of 7-13% at each seniority level through
year 12, with no seniority step-up after that. The most
senior captains would see salaries cut 21-25%.
First officers would take pay cuts of 10-16% at seniority
levels 2 through 4, with no seniority step-up after year 4,
for a 19-24% reduction for top-of-scale flyers. First officers
promoted to captain would start at first-year captain
pay instead of getting credit for their first-officer service.
The only offset to the loss in pay—and other cuts in benefits
and changes in work rules—is a new profit-sharing program
that would pay employees 10% of profits up to 4% of
the company’s pre-tax margin and 15% of profits above 4%.
-Andrew Compart, [email protected]
blesko
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2005
- Posts
- 378
none were pilot error.
shortbus driver
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2005
- Posts
- 151
Oh really?
The probable cause of the crash was attributed by the NTSB to be “inadequate visual lookout by the pilots of both aircraft which resulted in their failure to see-and-avoid oncoming traffic.
NTSB report for ASA 2254 April 9, 1990
That is pilot error.
Don't break your leg getting off your high horse.
The probable cause of the crash was attributed by the NTSB to be “inadequate visual lookout by the pilots of both aircraft which resulted in their failure to see-and-avoid oncoming traffic.
NTSB report for ASA 2254 April 9, 1990
That is pilot error.
Don't break your leg getting off your high horse.
IUSTACHECKEM
Member
- Joined
- Feb 8, 2005
- Posts
- 21
Really,
Cleared to a lower altitude, brake out below a solid layer and find a 172 scud running.
By the way, the pilots were awarded Top Honors by the Order of Daedalians for saving the aircraft, occupiants and crew with only 8 inches of horizontal stab on the right side of the tail. Approach speed was in excess of 165kts. Gadsden, AL.
Cleared to a lower altitude, brake out below a solid layer and find a 172 scud running.
By the way, the pilots were awarded Top Honors by the Order of Daedalians for saving the aircraft, occupiants and crew with only 8 inches of horizontal stab on the right side of the tail. Approach speed was in excess of 165kts. Gadsden, AL.
shortbus driver
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2005
- Posts
- 151
IUSTACHECKEM
Member
- Joined
- Feb 8, 2005
- Posts
- 21
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