Best way to the Corporate? Advise needed

[leardawg]

While working on your ratings try knocking on corp. doors and see if they need any help around the hangar. Washing Planes, cleaning the hanger whatever it takes to get in the door. Plus you will need the etra $$$ to help pay rent while you try to build your time.
Storm

Good advice; I've known a few corporate pilots who got their start this way. I heard one story of a pilot who was hired as an intern with a Fortune 500 company, and was handed a broom on the first day on the job. He later found out this was done deliberately to see what his reaction would be. Presumably, if he copped an attitude or did a half-assed sweeping job, it would indicate someone who wasn't a team player or had an ego problem, or something like that. It may seem kind of like BS, but these things happen. Aspiring pilots don't make the rules; they have to find out what they are and do their best to accomodate them.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Good advice; I've known a few corporate pilots who got their start this way. I heard one story of a pilot who was hired as an intern with a Fortune 500 company, and was handed a broom on the first day on the job. He later found out this was done deliberately to see what his reaction would be. Presumably, if he copped an attitude or did a half-assed sweeping job, it would indicate someone who wasn't a team player or had an ego problem, or something like that. It may seem kind of like BS, but these things happen. Aspiring pilots don't make the rules; they have to find out what they are and do their best to accomodate them.

jeeesus this has gotten pretty funny....

anyone aspiring to land a decent job in corporate aviation needs to avoid ANY of the "advice" given here.

- dont get "creative" in your cover letters. (odd)

- dont wish anyone "a great weekend" in your cover letters. (freak)

- dont EVER volunteer to sweep the hangar floors. You are applying for a professional pilot position, no? All decent corporate outfits have cleaners for the aircraft and the hangar. Need to neaten up the cabin on the road and you dont have FA's? sure....thats common sense...sweeping the hangar? uh -- NO.

You are a professional pilot, if a prospective employer handed me a broom at the interview to see my reaction I would promptly hand it back and tell him to stick it right up his a$$....and move on in my job search....

Its not called "ego", its called "pride" ......and is something more of you
need -- in a bad way.

Good Luck.

 

[MissKittyKat]

no gulstream it is not funny! sweeping floors must bother you!

When you work corporate, you MUST clean the plane. Yu sound angry and have not filled in what you fly for. and yes you need to be creative to make it! a positive attitude gets you everwhere!

 

[Gulfstream 200]

no gulstream it is not funny! sweeping floors must bother you!

When you work corporate, you MUST clean the plane. Yu sound angry and have not filled in what you fly for. and yes you need to be creative to make it! a positive attitude gets you everwhere!

dear god help us.

OK, I finally have to ask -- where the hell are you from and what is your primary language??

mark my word (and those of any self-respecting pilot).......someday Im gonna fly something like your Global Express and Im not going to do ANY floor sweeping or plane cleaning on the way there!

 

[murdock]

Hey Chris,
Gulfstream200 provided a really great example of this business, ITS ALL ABOUT HIM!. The only reason he thinks this is funny, is that he was probably looking in a mirror as he was writing. Gulfstream200 dosent realize that your just starting out. My advice is stay positive, show that your a team player, and be assertive. It's not so much about flying a airplane, its can you work with your crew and others in your dept. and willing to go that extra mile, to ensure your pax's are happy and that the flight is safe. That's what's it all about. Gulfstream200, keep your comments to yourself, I'm sure you could have shared a positive experience or advice to help guide someone.

P.S.-Chris pm me if you would like to start as a intern, and Congrats, I think you just started networking!

 

[AerroMatt]

mark my word (and those of any self-respecting pilot).......someday Im gonna fly something like your Global Express and Im not going to do ANY floor sweeping or plane cleaning on the way there!

I manage a small flight department, and I am happy to hear such attitudes as G-200... it helps me weed out the undesirables early on. It is relatively easy to fly an airplane, but it takes real brains to get along with corporate managers who are putting in 14-16 hour days and wonder why they are paying big frigging bucks to the flight dept for small jobs like cleaning the airplane/hangar etc. I have a budget to meet, and I can easily exceed it if I have crews who are too proud to push a broom with me or put a little elbow grease in on polishing the airplane.

Sometimes, ya gotta check yer attitude at the door, roll up your sleeves, and do whatever the job requires.

"I'm not removing that chock! That's a job for Maintenance!"

 

[Gulfstream 200]

mark my word (and those of any self-respecting pilot).......someday Im gonna fly something like your Global Express and Im not going to do ANY floor sweeping or plane cleaning on the way there!

I manage a small flight department, and I am happy to hear such attitudes as G-200... it helps me weed out the undesirables early on. It is relatively easy to fly an airplane, but it takes real brains to get along with corporate managers who are putting in 14-16 hour days and wonder why they are paying big frigging bucks to the flight dept for small jobs like cleaning the airplane/hangar etc. I have a budget to meet, and I can easily exceed it if I have crews who are too proud to push a broom with me or put a little elbow grease in on polishing the airplane.

Sometimes, ya gotta check yer attitude at the door, roll up your sleeves, and do whatever the job requires.

"I'm not removing that chock! That's a job for Maintenance!"

Dont worry about weeding me out Mattster, I wouldn't be applying. You need a shine-bitch, not a pilot.

Maybe you need to work on that budget boss?

If cleaning is stressing the budget, maybe your company cant afford the plane? boy are you going feel like an idiot as you shine it up all purdy before the next buyers look at it!

Trust me I do lots of extra duties at my job - (and am compensated for them) I consider that normal at most Fortune XX departments....but those duties usually consist of flying related stuff - Jepps,training, etc...not sweeping the floor or shining the freakin' brightwork....

your broom sweeping attitude makes me laugh! -- its so old school and wont be missed!





OLDSCHOOL MATT:smash:

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Hey Chris,
Gulfstream200 provided a really great example of this business, ITS ALL ABOUT HIM!. The only reason he thinks this is funny, is that he was probably looking in a mirror as he was writing. Gulfstream200 dosent realize that your just starting out. My advice is stay positive, show that your a team player, and be assertive. It's not so much about flying a airplane, its can you work with your crew and others in your dept. and willing to go that extra mile, to ensure your pax's are happy and that the flight is safe. That's what's it all about. Gulfstream200, keep your comments to yourself, I'm sure you could have shared a positive experience or advice to help guide someone.

P.S.-Chris pm me if you would like to start as a intern, and Congrats, I think you just started networking!

But Murdork - IMHO I gave the best advice here -- know your worth as a professional and have some pride. Just because you are low time does not mean you need to be pushing a freakin' broom.

and YES - it is pretty much all about me (and my family). Thats another great bit of advice I can share with someone aspiring to enter ANY field in aviation....IT IS ALL ABOUT YOU - every step of the way.


PS - You might want to get that ATP ticket, it adds much more to the aura of professionalism than does sweeping the floor like a "team player".

 

[semperfido]

cleaning the plane and tidying the cabin up after a leg are NOT the same thing. i might kick an errant ice cube under the ice machine in the hangar

 

[G4G5]

mark my word (and those of any self-respecting pilot).......someday Im gonna fly something like your Global Express and Im not going to do ANY floor sweeping or plane cleaning on the way there!

I manage a small flight department, and I am happy to hear such attitudes as G-200... it helps me weed out the undesirables early on. It is relatively easy to fly an airplane, but it takes real brains to get along with corporate managers who are putting in 14-16 hour days and wonder why they are paying big frigging bucks to the flight dept for small jobs like cleaning the airplane/hangar etc. I have a budget to meet, and I can easily exceed it if I have crews who are too proud to push a broom with me or put a little elbow grease in on polishing the airplane.

Sometimes, ya gotta check yer attitude at the door, roll up your sleeves, and do whatever the job requires.

"I'm not removing that chock! That's a job for Maintenance!"

I think the issue is when it becomes more then helping out. I know G5 operations that have their guys come in on days off to polish the bright work. 90% of the pilots I have have flown with have no problem helping out the FA in the back, especially if it means getting to the bar quicker. But if Willie is chargin his chopper down your carpeted halls, and you expect one of your captains to come in and vacuum up after him, then you may have a problem retaining quality talent.

Ride, Ride, Ride at least I am enjoying the ride

 

[AerroMatt]

Tsk tsk, G200. This is a small business, and I know quite a few other flt dept managers. You need to remember this; "The toes you step on today may be connected to the ass you have to kiss tomorrow."

 

[leardawg]

jeeesus this has gotten pretty funny....

anyone aspiring to land a decent job in corporate aviation needs to avoid ANY of the "advice" given here.

- dont get "creative" in your cover letters. (odd)

- dont wish anyone "a great weekend" in your cover letters. (freak)

- dont EVER volunteer to sweep the hangar floors. You are applying for a professional pilot position, no? All decent corporate outfits have cleaners for the aircraft and the hangar. Need to neaten up the cabin on the road and you dont have FA's? sure....thats common sense...sweeping the hangar? uh -- NO.

You are a professional pilot, if a prospective employer handed me a broom at the interview to see my reaction I would promptly hand it back and tell him to stick it right up his a$$....and move on in my job search....

Its not called "ego", its called "pride" ......and is something more of you
need -- in a bad way.

Good Luck.

Hey man! I was relating an anecdote, not advocating this as a procedure for getting hired. The fact of the matter is that this kind of thing does happen, wether one likes it or not. If your reaction is to tell them to "stick" the broom where the sun don't shine, that's your prorogative.

I don't know you, but by the tone of your post you seem like one of those arrogant types who think their "S**t don't stink" and who pervade this industry and make their employers and co-workers lives miserable. (Quite a few of whom eventually wind up with the FAA and a grudge toward the industry!).

Good luck in your career with that attitude. Flight Departments are clamoring for more pilots like that!

"I am pilot, therefore I am God! All ye lowly mechanics, FBO personel, low-time pilots, hotel staff, van drivers, dispatchers, restaurant workers etc. etc. bow before me lest ye incur my wrath!"

 

[semperfido]

good for you AeroM, but get a grip. pushing a broom? it is a two way street. if i were mgmt (and i'm not), i would not expect my pilots to clean the plane, vacuum the office or sweep the hangar floor. only "two bit" operations would do that sort of thing. "on the road" it is a team effort and everyone can chip in. At home plate, if you can afford a gex, then you can afford a cleaner and sweeper. are you affraid to ask for resources? do your job and manage and let your pilots have a life.

 

[leardawg]

An experienced pilot being handed a broom? I think that would qualify as an insult. A newbie who is lucky to have landed a corporate job quite early in his or her career? If it were me in that position, that would be the cleanest floor the company had ever seen. (I might start getting a little miffed if it started happening on a regular basis, especially if flights were few and far between).

 

[Storm Chaser]

G-200....If you read my post carefully you will see that I am telling a 0 time to low time pilot how to get his foot in the door. At no point did I say volunteer to sweep hangars. I said to see if they needed help around the hangar, washing planes or sweeping or what ever it takes. With pay.

Either your mommy and daddy paid your for your training or you forget how expensive it is to pay for flight training and build time trying to be a flight instructor. Besides getting in the door, it also provides you a good learning experience about the industry, gets you some cash and some flight departments will even reimburse you for further training whether it is flight training or college courses.

I know plenty of pilots that weren't too proud to push a broom, pump gas as a line man, or do whatever to get started in the industry.

Again remember this thread started out with a 0 time pilot asking how to get into the industry....not how a great pilot, such as yourself, get into it.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Tsk tsk, G200. This is a small business, and I know quite a few other flt dept managers. You need to remember this; "The toes you step on today may be connected to the ass you have to kiss tomorrow."

uh - "tsk tsk"

Trust me douchebag, I would never work for you or your type...I work very hard at my current job with an excellent company and I feel I am compensated fairly well. I am happy to do my job as a complete professional. Thats what they pay me for.

but push a broom with you to save a few bucks?....I dont think so pal.

Like I said, your old school mentality has always given corp jobs a bad rap.

You wont be missed.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

G-200....If you read my post carefully you will see that I am telling a 0 time to low time pilot how to get his foot in the door. At no point did I say volunteer to sweep hangars. I said to see if they needed help around the hangar, washing planes or sweeping or what ever it takes. With pay.

Either your mommy and daddy paid your for your training or you forget how expensive it is to pay for flight training and build time trying to be a flight instructor. Besides getting in the door, it also provides you a good learning experience about the industry, gets you some cash and some flight departments will even reimburse you for further training whether it is flight training or college courses.

I know plenty of pilots that weren't too proud to push a broom, pump gas as a line man, or do whatever to get started in the industry.

Again remember this thread started out with a 0 time pilot asking how to get into the industry....not how a great pilot, such as yourself, get into it.

You have 1500+ hrs and some jet experience. You may be low time but you dont need to go the route these tools are suggesting. You qualify as a competent SIC at many fine departments ----- who won't let, want, nor expect, you to sweep the floor, wash the cars, or be a slave to some old school loser, one airplane "department manager".

My department employs professional pilots (30 of us) to fly the planes. many of us have side jobs we catch up on during the slow times (thats the norm)...aside from that we are expected to be well rested, 100% prepared and ready to fly our trips as complete professionals. NOT SWEEP THE FLOORS.

This really isn't just about sweeping, its about that assinine mentality that some self-proclaimed "dept managers" (like door Matt) still have. usually they are the ones who were beat upon in thier youth also. Luckily for us, they are becoming few and far between these days.

Most importantly -- dont underestimate your qualifications -- or everyone else will.

Good Luck.

 

[leardawg]

Boy oh boy! Who would've thought the mere mention of a broom would elicit so much venom?! (But again, this is FI!).

Someone needs an extra cup of coffee (or something)!

 

[viperman]

I'm new to this group and after reading through, couldn't agree more! Is it possible just to give good, solid advice to the question(s) or advice being asked?

I'd like to hear more direct ADVICE on the ways those flying in corporate jobs ACTUALLY networked to get where they are. Are there any other options? What about those with more experience - what advice do you have for those of us out there? comments on the use of aviation job sites such as planejobs, climb-to-350, etc?

 

[leardawg]

All I can say is that to anyone who thinks they are going to march into some corporate flight department, slam a resume on the secretary's desk, and announce that they will consider doing the company the favor of letting them hire him or her, GOOD LUCK! Pride in one's professionalism and qualifications are important, but no one likes a person with zero humility, even if they have no intention of making them do menial tasks. A willingness to chip in when appropriate and a team attitude are qualities desired in any business. No body cares for the "I don't do windows" mentality. That's a fact!