Best way to the Corporate? Advise needed

[AerroMatt]

Tsk tsk, G200. This is a small business, and I know quite a few other flt dept managers. You need to remember this; "The toes you step on today may be connected to the ass you have to kiss tomorrow."

 

[leardawg]

jeeesus this has gotten pretty funny....

anyone aspiring to land a decent job in corporate aviation needs to avoid ANY of the "advice" given here.

- dont get "creative" in your cover letters. (odd)

- dont wish anyone "a great weekend" in your cover letters. (freak)

- dont EVER volunteer to sweep the hangar floors. You are applying for a professional pilot position, no? All decent corporate outfits have cleaners for the aircraft and the hangar. Need to neaten up the cabin on the road and you dont have FA's? sure....thats common sense...sweeping the hangar? uh -- NO.

You are a professional pilot, if a prospective employer handed me a broom at the interview to see my reaction I would promptly hand it back and tell him to stick it right up his a$$....and move on in my job search....

Its not called "ego", its called "pride" ......and is something more of you
need -- in a bad way.

Good Luck.

Hey man! I was relating an anecdote, not advocating this as a procedure for getting hired. The fact of the matter is that this kind of thing does happen, wether one likes it or not. If your reaction is to tell them to "stick" the broom where the sun don't shine, that's your prorogative.

I don't know you, but by the tone of your post you seem like one of those arrogant types who think their "S**t don't stink" and who pervade this industry and make their employers and co-workers lives miserable. (Quite a few of whom eventually wind up with the FAA and a grudge toward the industry!).

Good luck in your career with that attitude. Flight Departments are clamoring for more pilots like that!

"I am pilot, therefore I am God! All ye lowly mechanics, FBO personel, low-time pilots, hotel staff, van drivers, dispatchers, restaurant workers etc. etc. bow before me lest ye incur my wrath!"

 

[semperfido]

good for you AeroM, but get a grip. pushing a broom? it is a two way street. if i were mgmt (and i'm not), i would not expect my pilots to clean the plane, vacuum the office or sweep the hangar floor. only "two bit" operations would do that sort of thing. "on the road" it is a team effort and everyone can chip in. At home plate, if you can afford a gex, then you can afford a cleaner and sweeper. are you affraid to ask for resources? do your job and manage and let your pilots have a life.

 

[leardawg]

An experienced pilot being handed a broom? I think that would qualify as an insult. A newbie who is lucky to have landed a corporate job quite early in his or her career? If it were me in that position, that would be the cleanest floor the company had ever seen. (I might start getting a little miffed if it started happening on a regular basis, especially if flights were few and far between).

 

[Storm Chaser]

G-200....If you read my post carefully you will see that I am telling a 0 time to low time pilot how to get his foot in the door. At no point did I say volunteer to sweep hangars. I said to see if they needed help around the hangar, washing planes or sweeping or what ever it takes. With pay.

Either your mommy and daddy paid your for your training or you forget how expensive it is to pay for flight training and build time trying to be a flight instructor. Besides getting in the door, it also provides you a good learning experience about the industry, gets you some cash and some flight departments will even reimburse you for further training whether it is flight training or college courses.

I know plenty of pilots that weren't too proud to push a broom, pump gas as a line man, or do whatever to get started in the industry.

Again remember this thread started out with a 0 time pilot asking how to get into the industry....not how a great pilot, such as yourself, get into it.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Tsk tsk, G200. This is a small business, and I know quite a few other flt dept managers. You need to remember this; "The toes you step on today may be connected to the ass you have to kiss tomorrow."

uh - "tsk tsk"

Trust me douchebag, I would never work for you or your type...I work very hard at my current job with an excellent company and I feel I am compensated fairly well. I am happy to do my job as a complete professional. Thats what they pay me for.

but push a broom with you to save a few bucks?....I dont think so pal.

Like I said, your old school mentality has always given corp jobs a bad rap.

You wont be missed.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

G-200....If you read my post carefully you will see that I am telling a 0 time to low time pilot how to get his foot in the door. At no point did I say volunteer to sweep hangars. I said to see if they needed help around the hangar, washing planes or sweeping or what ever it takes. With pay.

Either your mommy and daddy paid your for your training or you forget how expensive it is to pay for flight training and build time trying to be a flight instructor. Besides getting in the door, it also provides you a good learning experience about the industry, gets you some cash and some flight departments will even reimburse you for further training whether it is flight training or college courses.

I know plenty of pilots that weren't too proud to push a broom, pump gas as a line man, or do whatever to get started in the industry.

Again remember this thread started out with a 0 time pilot asking how to get into the industry....not how a great pilot, such as yourself, get into it.

You have 1500+ hrs and some jet experience. You may be low time but you dont need to go the route these tools are suggesting. You qualify as a competent SIC at many fine departments ----- who won't let, want, nor expect, you to sweep the floor, wash the cars, or be a slave to some old school loser, one airplane "department manager".

My department employs professional pilots (30 of us) to fly the planes. many of us have side jobs we catch up on during the slow times (thats the norm)...aside from that we are expected to be well rested, 100% prepared and ready to fly our trips as complete professionals. NOT SWEEP THE FLOORS.

This really isn't just about sweeping, its about that assinine mentality that some self-proclaimed "dept managers" (like door Matt) still have. usually they are the ones who were beat upon in thier youth also. Luckily for us, they are becoming few and far between these days.

Most importantly -- dont underestimate your qualifications -- or everyone else will.

Good Luck.

 

[leardawg]

Boy oh boy! Who would've thought the mere mention of a broom would elicit so much venom?! (But again, this is FI!).

Someone needs an extra cup of coffee (or something)!

 

[viperman]

I'm new to this group and after reading through, couldn't agree more! Is it possible just to give good, solid advice to the question(s) or advice being asked?

I'd like to hear more direct ADVICE on the ways those flying in corporate jobs ACTUALLY networked to get where they are. Are there any other options? What about those with more experience - what advice do you have for those of us out there? comments on the use of aviation job sites such as planejobs, climb-to-350, etc?

 

[leardawg]

All I can say is that to anyone who thinks they are going to march into some corporate flight department, slam a resume on the secretary's desk, and announce that they will consider doing the company the favor of letting them hire him or her, GOOD LUCK! Pride in one's professionalism and qualifications are important, but no one likes a person with zero humility, even if they have no intention of making them do menial tasks. A willingness to chip in when appropriate and a team attitude are qualities desired in any business. No body cares for the "I don't do windows" mentality. That's a fact!

 

[Gulfstream 200]

All very true Leardawg.

OK, floorsweeping and old school jackoffs aside, here is an opinion on job searching:

Avcrew.com - I got a job there 4 or 5 years ago. A decent, 6 figure job. I just saw the ad and emailed a resume/cover letter. I was local and qualified. When I left that job for greener pastures I passed it along (interview at least) to someone here on FI.com - he got the job.

As far as paying for any other services -- no way. they advertise junk, repeat free ads constantly, and 90% of thier ads are for overseas junk work..no thanks. Keep in mind 99% of decent jobs are not had my blind resumes, they are through contacts. Many also post the web based ads here online, no need to pay for that garbage.

As far as networking...it just takes time I suppose. Right here (and that other site...CAAM) are great starts. Recurrent training is also a great opportunity. Now, I wouldnt show up in class with a stack of resumes, but chatting over a few beers at the hotel often leads to better jobs.

Dont underestimate these sites for contacts. I know I am always happy to pass along any leads, advice I know in PMs etc...I have met some cool guys here, we talk often and pass along all the job leads that are going on in our area (NY metro). Im happy to help a guy out and would think they would do the same someday......

(even if I am a complete jackass)


good luck to ya!

 

[viperman]

Do you have the website address for CAAM? If this forum is a good place to start networking - well, here goes - if anyone can lead me in the right direction, I'm all ears!

As you can briefly see from my background, mostly all military fighter time. Was with United as a 727 F/O for a little over 2 years which ended when I had to take an extended time period off to care for 2 terminally ill family members.

When I left the USAF, alwasy wanted to fly corporate - decent pay and working with a close nit group of a couple of pilots - a lot to be said for that in alone! In order to try to stay flying, was forced to go the 135 route - can't say I have had a positive experience there and I'm sure I'm not alone.

The one thing I am running into as a snag from what I can determine is the part 91 positions I have seen offered require a type - which I don't have the immediate funds just to run out and get one.

All I'm looking for is someone who offers a decent paying flying job in a close working environment where I can work the rest of my career (not to build hours and go somewhere else) With over 3600 hours of high performance jet experience, I haven't been able to quite figure out why this doesn't seem to be of value to most corporate flight departments (at least that's been my perception)

Open to all advice / insight!

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Do you have the website address for CAAM? If this forum is a good place to start networking - well, here goes - if anyone can lead me in the right direction, I'm all ears!

As you can briefly see from my background, mostly all military fighter time. Was with United as a 727 F/O for a little over 2 years which ended when I had to take an extended time period off to care for 2 terminally ill family members.

When I left the USAF, alwasy wanted to fly corporate - decent pay and working with a close nit group of a couple of pilots - a lot to be said for that in alone! In order to try to stay flying, was forced to go the 135 route - can't say I have had a positive experience there and I'm sure I'm not alone.

The one thing I am running into as a snag from what I can determine is the part 91 positions I have seen offered require a type - which I don't have the immediate funds just to run out and get one.

All I'm looking for is someone who offers a decent paying flying job in a close working environment where I can work the rest of my career (not to build hours and go somewhere else) With over 3600 hours of high performance jet experience, I haven't been able to quite figure out why this doesn't seem to be of value to most corporate flight departments (at least that's been my perception)

Open to all advice / insight!

Nope you are not alone -- 135 sucks....but it might be a start to get you into the better 91 jobs. It was for me and many I know.

require a type? many really dont...but you gotta understand there are lots of guys looking to go that Pt91 corp route since the airlines officially suck for life now. There is just probably many resumes on top of yours that already have types and more crew corporate experience. You cant blame employers for hitting those resumes first. Dont consider buying any types...a type w/o time in aircraft is 100% useless.

Dont think departments wont value your fighter time, just dont emphasize it...some still view it as single pilot time and want to see some more crew corp time. Not sure if I agree with this these days, most fighter guys I have flown with have NO CRM problems (just mental ones...haha)

What area are you looking in? please dont say Bumfuk, Kansas and you dont want to move. Corporate jobs are not plentiful outside the major metro areas.

that other websites name has been banned here, but here's a try...the 2 had been fueding but seem to have kissed and made up..which is to our benefit - they are both good resources...www.clear-and-a-million.com

 

[viperman]

That helps a lot - I'm not looking for bum..., Kansas and I am definitely willing to relocate.

My first choice of relocation areas (if I had one) would be Western. (I'm a huge outdoorsman) So, with that in mind, I'd start with Missoula, Helena, MT; Salt Lake City, Ogden, UT; Denver,CO; Boise, ID; Portland, OR; Seattle, Spokane; WA: Northern California (or San Diego). Places that lend themselves to great scenery and outdoor recreational opportunities.

Not a real big fan of the Southeast and a little too congested living wise in the Northeast for me (with possible exception of upstate NY)

Hope that builds the right picture in your mind - not saying I'm not open to elsewhere - but if I had the choice......

Now, the big question - resources for networking for opportunities in these areas? Again, I AM ALL EARS! and thanks again for your last post!!!

 

[Gulfstream 200]

I agree those are all beautiful places....but how many corp aircraft are based there?

I know guys from Denver and Salt Lake looking for work in NY.....

In general, companies hire locals. A resume from across the country from an unknown usually goes in the trash.

just a thought!