Best piece of flying in modern day was this.

[MCDU]

http://www.smartcockpit.com/data/pdfs/flightops/flyingtechnique/Baghdad_A300_Incident.pdf

 

[Limeyflyer]

I would have to agree. Al Haynes type flying there.

 

[grog_sit_reserv]

Amazing job. I always thought those guys didn't get enough credit for saving that ship and themselves.

 

[grog_sit_reserv]

Now that I think about it, weren't they a little young to know about this type of flying? I thought only guys close to retirement could do this sort of wizardry.

 

[luckytohaveajob]

The elderly did try this kind of wizardry. But the results were drastically different in Sioux City, Iowa. That DC 10 failed to understand power was required throughout the flair and they lost it on the bottom.

The Sioux City, Iowa DC10 pulled the power on the bottom starting the left bank associated with the orginial malfunction causing the aircraft to roll left and uncontrolled upon landing.

The Sioux City crew did a remarkable job up until that point and just relaxed and reverted to the normal way to land an aircraft. They did not know because they were not training in any way for the events they faced that day.

The training does exist and should be required in every Boeing sim course with academics included.

But airline would prefer to just put out another 100 page training bulletin telling you not to do something like they did after the AMR A300 JFK accident. Don't push the rudder below Va enough the aircraft was supposedly certified that way. The guaidance concerning TOC will be don't crash.

 

[luckytohaveajob]

Thrust Only Control

This type of flying is called Thrust Only Control (TOC).

It has been fully developed by NASA in the early 1990's. NASA has studied every incidence of this since early multi engine flight.

NASA used a DC10 less than five years after the Sioux City, Iowa accident. In that flight study NASA used a standard DC10 with a modified SOFTWARE only change to the Mode Control Panel and the addition of one switch allowing the new 170 lines of code to take control of the autothrottles.

The modified 170 lines of code allowed the autothrottles to adjust the one and three engine as needed to control the aircraft.

The aircraft was controlled through the mode control panel in the TOC mode. It could control flight on a heading, climb or descend at a set vertical speed and rate of turn.

The modification was extensively flown during the test program to the point of landing off the bottom of an ILS.

 

[luckytohaveajob]

This NASA developed modification could be included in every wing engine mounted airframe in use today with a software modification to the autothrottle system.

The reason it is not is because of liability issues concerning past accidents.

It was reported the B787 will have this autothrottle feature incorporated.

 

[MCDU]

The elderly did try this kind of wizardry. But the results were drastically different in Sioux City, Iowa. That DC 10 failed to understand power was required throughout the flair and they lost it on the bottom.

True, the crew might have learned from that Sioux City crash not to alter flight path with reducing power during the landing phase.

 

[luckytohaveajob]

True, the crew might have learned from that Sioux City crash not to alter flight path with reducing power during the landing phase.

Overall they saved lives. If they had only been trained it would have been even better. We should all have the training.

 

[samballs]

Have always heard the pilot who came up to help has always talked bad about Als handling of the landing, is this true?

 

[Wankel7]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_Baghdad_DHL_attempted_shootdown_incident

Anyways, I heard this captain had heard Al Haynes speak several weeks before somebody stuffed an SA-7 under his wing....

I am sure if Al Haynes had heard Al Haynes speak before his incident...he would have had an edge.

 

[Tomct]

Have always heard the pilot who came up to help has always talked bad about Als handling of the landing, is this true?

Now the 3 different times that I have watched Air Emergencies on the NGC, each time, the "Check Airman" from the back who was the one operating the throttles NEVER said ANYTHING BAD about that landing. His statement on the approach to landing was that he looked at the VSI and saw 1500fpm and he knew he could not land with that rate of descent...so he pushed up the throttles and for the FIRST TIME the #1 engine spooled up before the #3 engine...Hence when you see the video, the left wing picks up and drags the right! As I recall, American Airlines had a DC10 with a similar problem and the ONLY reason they survived was that the Captn had just been through a PC and had asked to land with Asymetric thrust. I believe it was 1970. Al Haynes is THE MAN and their crew did an INCREDIBLE JOB getting that airplane on the ground without TOTAL LOSS OF LIFE!

 

[Tomct]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Airlines_Flight_96

Now this accident happened and they had lost "Some" hydraulic lines...NOT ALL 3 like in Sioux City. Great outcome, but they had some hydraulic help for the elevator where Sioux City they were using nothing but shere Muscle. Big Difference!

 

[Tomct]

The elderly did try this kind of wizardry. But the results were drastically different in Sioux City, Iowa. That DC 10 failed to understand power was required throughout the flair and they lost it on the bottom.

The Sioux City, Iowa DC10 pulled the power on the bottom starting the left bank associated with the orginial malfunction causing the aircraft to roll left and uncontrolled upon landing.

The Sioux City crew did a remarkable job up until that point and just relaxed and reverted to the normal way to land an aircraft. They did not know because they were not training in any way for the events they faced that day.

The training does exist and should be required in every Boeing sim course with academics included.

But airline would prefer to just put out another 100 page training bulletin telling you not to do something like they did after the AMR A300 JFK accident. Don't push the rudder below Va enough the aircraft was supposedly certified that way. The guaidance concerning TOC will be don't crash.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Airlines_Flight_232#Factors_contributing_to_survival

Lucky...you sound like you are "Arm Chair Quarterbacking" this incredible piece of flying. If you read this link about their expected outcome, they were amazed (the NTSB) of Sioux City outcome, you might want to change your tone. The crew did no such thing as "relax" at the bottom of the approach. Why don't you read what the Check Airman (who was operating the throttles) said about the "bottom" of the approach. YGTBSM with your comments!

 

[Stinkbug]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Airlines_Flight_232


Having read the cvr transcript I've always felt Cpt. Haynes' maintaining a sense of humor in the midst of such a terrifying situation speaks volumes about his character and command ability!