Beechjet questions

[Palerider957]

Thanks for everyone's input. Here is what I'm up against. We have looked at a TON of differen't airplanes, and the owners wife likes the BJ....yes, I know, I know. But this is my cross to bear. They want a nicer (larger) cabin than the Lear or Citation, but don't want to spend more than $3M.

Our normal trip of bouncing around the SE U.S., with occaisonal trips to NE U.S. almost anything should suffice. I just want a decent quaity aircraft with a good dispatch reliability.

 

[Palerider957]

What are the biggest gripes with the BJ, (aside from double engine flameout!) Range? Fuel burn? Dispatch reliability?

 

[Galaxy]

You are right..It's not that bad.. The Push to talk on the glare shield is cool and the avionics are sweet and those TR's really stop that thing also nice flat foor egg shaped cabin. But other than that- It is just a cheap option for a jet. There are a lot of them out there so jobs can be plentiful but many owners would rather you throw that book away as looking at the numbers you will be restricted. I have put 5 sets of golf clubs in the nose of an ultra and 5 roller bags in the tail plus crew bags 5 BIG fellas and flown the distance. If I saw that load coming in a BJ I would fist say an explicit like Oh Sheeringa! then try fighting it for 30 mins and then come out all sweaty and pissed off. Then the pax can enjoy thier nice cabin now cramped with stuff oozing out the lav and belted all over the back seats.
They do have a niche-but I just don't think it will fit the OP's needs. After all look at his Original post--the boss sat in one and liked the cabin. Isn't that how Options sold all thier BJ's along with a cheap price? It is not until the owner shows up with his buds the first time only to find a fuel stop is needed. I know he will be very disappointed trying to get from S.FL to Barre VT (you can call it Montpielier-but the airport is in Barre.) in one-then let it get 35C in FL or get to freezing temp in VT. You got the book-do the numbers-I will gladly send the OP my BJ training stuff to show his Boss what reality is..
Dime line-hurry up and quit options so I can see Beavis smile for once.

 

[Galaxy]

Thanks for everyone's input. Here is what I'm up against. We have looked at a TON of differen't airplanes, and the owners wife likes the BJ....yes, I know, I know. But this is my cross to bear. They want a nicer (larger) cabin than the Lear or Citation, but don't want to spend more than $3M.

Our normal trip of bouncing around the SE U.S., with occaisonal trips to NE U.S. almost anything should suffice. I just want a decent quaity aircraft with a good dispatch reliability.

If all he is looking at is a cabin..tell him a mid 1970's GIIB is under 3M.
Big cabin and the range almost of the GIII.. Plus you will get a LOT of avtrip point with that guzzler.

 

[Galaxy]

What are the biggest gripes with the BJ, (aside from double engine flameout!) Range? Fuel burn? Dispatch reliability?

Besides the biggest one being the dual flameouts-which look at it I already PM'd you on this but the Diamonds and older BJ's have been out for a long time with no issues then all the sudden they fall out of the sky and the fix from the acft mfgr and engine mfgr is engine ice on? WTF that doesn't sound like a fix-it sounds like guess. Range is one if you compare to the Citation family. Dispatch relaibility is a huge issue-if you get one get used to the phrase-"what the F is it doing that for?". The biggest issue is performance in my book. Take a good look at the ice on numbers as well as the HOT numbers as well as brake energy limits. Then get a hold of the new contaminated runway numbers and start planning on looooong runways.
Most of the guys that say it is not that bad of an airplane usually have nothing else to compare it to-so to them it isn't bad. They are also the guys who I learned to fly the BJ with that ignore most of the charts and hated when I got into them and questioned them on how we were going to take off in LAS at a high temp and make our destination? I get the its OK attitude I've done it before-kinda like the times they wanted to take off overweight. They just changed the rules to fit the mission. Just ask a NJ guy who flies more a Ultra crew or a BJ crew? I already know the answer...If he is buying a plane just or the cabin then let him-just warn him in advance that even if a K Car has a sweet new interior it is still a POS.

 

[400pilot]

"what the F is it doing that for?"

Hah!! Ain't that the truth....I mutter that at least once a rotation it seems.....

 

[Galaxy]

Oh, I almost forgot the dance of the "Mother F%^&#r". If and when you go to training they call it a nose gear pin. However you will name it the above mentioned term. When you are in TEB in the winter with deice fluid all over the ground and you are sitting on an engine plug with a foot on each side of the nose wheel kicking it back and forth shouting at this little pin like a 2 yr old having a tantrum. Then you go inside the FBO to wipe off the glycol you got all over the sides of your shoes and pants. Then you want to go find the nearest Japenese guy and kick him in the teeth for ever allowing such an abomination to be built.

 

[dime line]

Oh, I almost forgot the dance of the "Mother F%^&#r". If and when you go to training they call it a nose gear pin. However you will name it the above mentioned term. When you are in TEB in the winter with deice fluid all over the ground and you are sitting on an engine plug with a foot on each side of the nose wheel kicking it back and forth shouting at this little pin like a 2 yr old having a tantrum. Then you go inside the FBO to wipe off the glycol you got all over the sides of your shoes and pants. Then you want to go find the nearest Japenese guy and kick him in the teeth for ever allowing such an abomination to be built.

Have to agree with this..

 

[learflyer]

Dime, you back in the hawker yet? I'd think you'd be able to hold it.

 

[Palerider957]

If all he is looking at is a cabin..tell him a mid 1970's GIIB is under 3M.
Big cabin and the range almost of the GIII.. Plus you will get a LOT of avtrip point with that guzzler.

Funny you bring up a GIIB, because we seriously condisered one. I pushed it off, as I was scared to death of the maintenance bills, recurring AD's, and the new legislation that is looking to ban stage II A/C.

 

[Palerider957]

Oh, I almost forgot the dance of the "Mother F%^&#r". If and when you go to training they call it a nose gear pin. However you will name it the above mentioned term. When you are in TEB in the winter with deice fluid all over the ground and you are sitting on an engine plug with a foot on each side of the nose wheel kicking it back and forth shouting at this little pin like a 2 yr old having a tantrum. Then you go inside the FBO to wipe off the glycol you got all over the sides of your shoes and pants. Then you want to go find the nearest Japenese guy and kick him in the teeth for ever allowing such an abomination to be built.

Damm, not cool at all. Is there anything this aircraft does well?

 

[Guitar rocker]

Damm, not cool at all. Is there anything this aircraft does well?

Yup, there is. The sound system in ours is pretty good.

 

[ultrarunner]

Funny you bring up a GIIB, because we seriously condisered one. I pushed it off, as I was scared to death of the maintenance bills, recurring AD's, and the new legislation that is looking to ban stage II A/C.

You can hush it for a half-mil. You'd be WAY ahead of the ball game...and actually have a nice bird.

HOWEVER, the fuel bills will be beyond scary....esp when compared to your current equipment. But you can't go wrong with that airframe. Hire your own mech an have at it.

 

[RNObased]

Damm, not cool at all. Is there anything this aircraft does well?

No.

The gear pin is a mess.

Mechanics hate this airplane. I'm talking burning hatred. Go find a mechanic and ask him about inflating the nose strut on one, and watch him blow a gasket. Poor design, but that is what this thing is all about.

If they buy one of these things, I would quit.

 

[Galaxy]

Damm, not cool at all. Is there anything this aircraft does well?

Yup-It has been proven to be an efficient glider...It aslo does a great job training our US Military on how to fly heavier jets as in the cargo, bombers, refuelers. Actually, I would love to have one to make a huge offset smoker/grill out of. I could just walk the cow or pig in and start cookin'

Not sure what Citation you are coming from but this Sushi Slug from Raytheon, eh ah Beechcraft, ah no wait--Mitsubishi yea thats it weighs in over 1000lbs heavier empty than a straight V and takes 1000lbs less fuel.



Lets look at some numbers--I just found my be 40 books. I want to have a campfire anyhow..

Lets say its 30C in VNC-Not hard to do huh-
Well you wanna go up north?
16.3 flaps 0-TOFL-5710-hey wait, isnt VNC only 5000'
16.3 flaps 10-TOFL 4848-swee huh-aww crap under 3.3% Climb-Tell the boss is VFR only to depart.
16.3 flaps 20-TOFL-4513-yahoo we're going! Buzz NOT! The number is written in RED-That can't be good. Like a 1% Climb grad.
Or you can st overlook the numbers or slide em in your favor as they are all ambigous spaghetti charts.

How many times do we have to tell you:
Friends don't let friends buy Beechjunk.

As far as the GIIB I just saw one just under 3M with all the III mods including winglets and the hush hush you naughty boy kit with great paint and newer interior. As far as the gas cost--he is now a player rollin in a "G" and it aint free! What does he wan't? a BIG cabin and cheap DOC's? Buy a P180-then nobody will know if you are coming or going...:cartman:

Oh Oh I almost forgot, You plan on going to VT? MPV? They don't have a de-ice truck there and have fun on a big ladder on the ice removing snow from a tail you can't see or reach! Didn't FLOPS have a guy slip and get hurt real bad a few years ago doing that..He is prob getting screwed on that other threat called FLOPS steals from its sick and injured. Contaminated numbers in the BJ are just silly-like 8K' or something to start out..
Oh I could go on and on.. but I have to study for my FLOPS BJ salesman test-goodnight-wait-I am done--I just keep telling them look at the nice big cabin-nice huh--and did I mention the nice big cabin?
Where's my drink?

 

[Galaxy]

If they buy one of these things, I would quit.

DITTO!

 

[Palerider957]

Wow, thanks for everyones help......I'm going to start drinking heavily now.

 

[Fozzy]

Cheers

Wow, thanks for everyones help......I'm going to start drinking heavily now.

There you go. Solves all problems. :beer:

 

[pilotpat]

Ever notice how easy the pin comes out when its the other guy's turn? Dam that makes me mad!

As far as performance...all I can say is, August at 2pm, crew only, just enough fuel to get from ASE to DEN, and still scared the pants off us going so far down the runway.

Uh, oh! Is that little whispy thing up here at 380 a cloud? As my finger reaches up to those now very familiar buttons.

As far as design goes: Blah! I heard a FSI guy once comment that its a Japanese design, built in Texas by migrant workers. No wonder the switches are backwards. However, if you can figure out how to put all that luggage in the rear compartment, you'll score well on those IQ tests for lateral thinking.

 

[Galaxy]

Wow, thanks for everyones help......I'm going to start drinking heavily now.

So,,,,Is the Boss still interested? Is that why you are drinking?